Rules, regulations, and directions made in SES/SOP/SFSK

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
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Re: Rules, regulations, and directions made in SES/SOP/SFSK

Postby Dr.Alan » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:18 am

Hi Woodgreen,

your post of 2nd April has many issues which should be addressed. But I will confine this response to the issue of "perfection" which you have raised - as it appears to be important to you.

No realised soul would claim to be perfect. There are good reasons for that which they are fully aware of.

Self-realisation has four basic forms for one who reaches that exalted condition in their current body.

FIRST - realisation may happen due to extreme austerity or other traditional means and the individual would be in a condition where all becomes one. There is no distinction between any one aspect of creation or any other. Hence there is no one to see, talk to etc. etc. who is other than the individual. There is in that condition no identification with their own body, mind or intellect etc. It is for all intents and purposes the same as when any of us are in deep sleep. i.e. we are not really conscious of differences, hence there is no world to perceive in that condition. It is a condition of complete union with the Creator (Bhagavan) which it could be said that the realised soul experiences - but we cannot really know what that means - it is ultimate perfection. The individual has no individuality remaining. Hence there is also no desire of any kind and the body of that person will appear to others as if it were not conscious of any one or anything. The body would remain alive up to about 21 days and then the soul would depart - never to be confined by the identification of embodiment again. This type of realisation is not of any obvious value to other seekers; since no teaching comes from that individual to others.

SECOND - The end product of the second type is much like the 1st above. But it occurs at the natural death of the individual's body. It can only happen to one who has developed a pure mind and intellect during a lifetime of study and practice of a traditional path which has that (the pure mind etc) as its aim and eventual product. At death the individual has only one focus - a focus which has developed from the knowledge and wisdom gained about the true nature of their own soul - at death they reach ultimate perfection. This realisation also has no obvious value to other seekers in the same way as that mentioned above. But there may be value of a mysterious kind for any seekers who have been closely connected with that individual during many years of contact and exchange of information OR those who come to know, and understand, about that individual through an oral tradition connected to the one who became Self-realised. This may also be true of the 1st type of realised soul.

THIRD - An individual reaches the Self-realised state as in the 1st type. But due to other circumstances their body is cared for by others and they do not depart from it. Their perfection is evident to others due to a mysterious presence when in their company. But in this perfected state they are unable to communicate with others around them due to the same reasons given in the first type. i.e. all is one to them hence there is nothing to do, nothing to be attained and nowhere to go etc. also there is nothing to be gained when in that condition - since they have reached perfect understanding and bliss consciousness and have no needs. Yet others who are with them will naturally ask questions. In order to give useful answers they need to leave their state of perfect union with Bhagavan, temporarily - but at some risk to themselves. When they are thus in the relative field of existence they are then able to hear that a question is coming apparently from another. But their view is that this other is only separated from their own being by a barrier or shield of ignorance - which has a specific nature associated with the one who asks the question. Hence they are able to speak words which would (if properly understood) help to cross that barrier of ignorance - only because they have recent memory of the state of perfection from which they have descended as it were. In this relative field of existence there are many imperfections, most of the important ones relate to the use and understanding of language. There is nothing the Realised souls can do to change this situation. The reason the questioner does not become immediately realised when hearing the answer to their questions is due only to misunderstandings arising as a result of their own Samskara operating - and making a translation which they are able to live with compatible with how their life is at that present time.

FOURTH - This one can reach Self-realisation when very young. This is due to having almost reached the final stage in a previous embodiment. But due to various factors, the final stage was not reached due to having been dealt a pack of cards with one missing. i.e. like having a jig-saw puzzle with one piece not there. Whatever you do you cannot get the complete picture. This is because of previous karma etc. So it needed one more embodiment and the answer to one more question when in an embodiment with the faulty karma not there. When this one point is understood due to samskara being pure this time, the "penny drops" as it were and Self-realisation comes - apparently without having to go through all the rubbish which we are going through. But it was all done in a previous life. This fourth type will not always have the broad experience of the other three above, so may not become a fully competent teacher - but none-the-less a good example. Any of the types of death of their body mentioned with the others above could happen to this fourth type.

I hope that helps you with your concern about whether or not a true Guru is perfect (or not as you wish).

best wishes
SES - London 1964-1974 left due to SES interference with private life.

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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Rules, regulations, and directions made in SES/SOP/SFSK

Postby ManOnTheStreet » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:04 pm

Dr. Alan,

I would be very interested to hear what your response is to AT's earlier post:

actuallythere wrote:On first reading, from my perspective, two of your points come out as the most clear:

(A) That a mind affected by doubt, lack of faith, false knowledge or any irrelevant theories, opinions or beliefs is incapable of getting a true sense of the Advaita Vedanta teaching.

(B) The idea that criticizing criticism might be a form of criticism is used by some people to undermine a philosophy that they are unable to comprehend as well as stopping the process midstream and coming to false conclusions.


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