Come on girl, give it a try and be just your natural silent you.
SES schools worldwide
-
a different guest
- Posts: 620
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:13 am
- Location: Australia
Each "tutor" had an assistant, who would take notes on what each student said, and (without the students' knowledge) would discuss the impact of each student on the class and their suitability for progressing through the School with the tutor on a regular basis. Reports on individuals would be prepared and forwarded up the hierarchy.
Umm, no.
I've performed this role on and off over the course of a few years, and as a matter of fact, I'm doing it now. By the way, we're not taking notes at this point - that comes and goes as per discussions with tutors and group assistants about what they find useful. The job of a group assistant is to set up the room for the tutor with chairs, blackboard, chalk, water glass etc., to greet the students, and to try to listen as carefully as possible, to get a bit of stillness in the room for the tutor to speak. The idea is that the group assistant takes care of all the mundane stuff that has to be done for a group to meet, leaving the tutor free to focus on the students.
When I've taken notes, they've been forwarded to the tutor for his or her perusal, most notably as an aid to memory for what happened in that group. The tutor would forward the notes to the school leader, to keep him abreast of how things were going - an (apparently) objective observer was useful in giving a rundown of what the group had covered. I was instructed to record particularly striking observations or comments, but certainly not to keep tabs on everyone's "progress".
The tutor would read the notes, and the next week refer to "what so-and-so said last week" about whatever, or be able to cover stuff that hadn't been covered in the previous week's group. I'm totally serious when I say that I've never discussed a student's progression in the school with the tutor, and my comments at the end of the night (in the minute or two allowed) are almost always about how I found the evening. Like uh, whether I fell asleep.
I've never seen any "reports on individuals", whether forwarded to anyone or not, and I have to assume that's just speculation. Some people gossip, like anywhere, but what you're describing is certainly not institutionalised or formalised in the role of a group assistant. As far as I've ever been made aware, my job is to listen to the tutor, attend to the group's physical needs, and try to pay as much attention as possible to make the tutor feel like at least one person is listening. Seriously.
Umm, no.
I've performed this role on and off over the course of a few years, and as a matter of fact, I'm doing it now. By the way, we're not taking notes at this point - that comes and goes as per discussions with tutors and group assistants about what they find useful. The job of a group assistant is to set up the room for the tutor with chairs, blackboard, chalk, water glass etc., to greet the students, and to try to listen as carefully as possible, to get a bit of stillness in the room for the tutor to speak. The idea is that the group assistant takes care of all the mundane stuff that has to be done for a group to meet, leaving the tutor free to focus on the students.
When I've taken notes, they've been forwarded to the tutor for his or her perusal, most notably as an aid to memory for what happened in that group. The tutor would forward the notes to the school leader, to keep him abreast of how things were going - an (apparently) objective observer was useful in giving a rundown of what the group had covered. I was instructed to record particularly striking observations or comments, but certainly not to keep tabs on everyone's "progress".
The tutor would read the notes, and the next week refer to "what so-and-so said last week" about whatever, or be able to cover stuff that hadn't been covered in the previous week's group. I'm totally serious when I say that I've never discussed a student's progression in the school with the tutor, and my comments at the end of the night (in the minute or two allowed) are almost always about how I found the evening. Like uh, whether I fell asleep.
I've never seen any "reports on individuals", whether forwarded to anyone or not, and I have to assume that's just speculation. Some people gossip, like anywhere, but what you're describing is certainly not institutionalised or formalised in the role of a group assistant. As far as I've ever been made aware, my job is to listen to the tutor, attend to the group's physical needs, and try to pay as much attention as possible to make the tutor feel like at least one person is listening. Seriously.
-
a different guest
- Posts: 620
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:13 am
- Location: Australia
When I've taken notes, they've been forwarded to the tutor for his or her perusal, most notably as an aid to memory for what happened in that group. The tutor would forward the notes to the school leader, to keep him abreast of how things were going
Why would the school leader need them? Wouldn't a brief synposis from the tutor be more appropriate if it was just to "keep him abreast" of things?
Unless you know for a fact that those notes are subsequently destroyed woulnd't those notes be perfect things for keeping track of people and their thoughts?
bella wrote:Each "tutor" had an assistant, who would take notes on what each student said, and (without the students' knowledge) would discuss the impact of each student on the class and their suitability for progressing through the School with the tutor on a regular basis. Reports on individuals would be prepared and forwarded up the hierarchy.
Umm, no.
Perhaps the note taking varies among the SOP locations, and/or over time, Bella. What I observed was more than a debrief or memory jogger.
A good friend peformed the same role assistant role in another Australian SOP branch for some time, and showed me the notes taken on each member, which comprised comments on what was said, apparent attitudes to the messages, likelihood of the individual continuing with the SOP, suitability to remain in the group, etc.
The report was then forwarded to the ?Head? of the school. The students were apparently oblivious to this.
You're right, goblinboy - I haven't had any experience with writing up reports on people's suitability for the group, or speculation on them staying around, or anything like that. I expect the tutors probably discuss that sort of thing amongst themselves, or with the head of school, to work out who's going in which group...but I haven't been privy to any of it, and I haven't been asked to address it in my note-taking. I sort of figure it's none of my business. Yeah, the note-taking thing phases in and out, and will be different at different schools; my experience of it seems to be a bit different to your friend's.
ADG, the reports I sent were via email, and I CCed them to tutor and head of school at the same time. I figured this was a time-saving exercise, since I certainly didn't want to be writing out one set of notes for the tutor, then writing a summary for the school leader. The tutor probably didn't want to be writing that summary, either.
ADG, the reports I sent were via email, and I CCed them to tutor and head of school at the same time. I figured this was a time-saving exercise, since I certainly didn't want to be writing out one set of notes for the tutor, then writing a summary for the school leader. The tutor probably didn't want to be writing that summary, either.
This might be a good place to note -- I'm taking the Plato study class in addition to the regular indoctrination er, sorry, introduction to Practical Philosophy class. I met a woman in the Plato class who's been coming for 8 years on Monday nights. She works at night and although she has been around the School long enough to start w/ the service requirement etc, she is not willing to rearrange her work schedule to come twice a week, so she alternates between serving coffee etc on Mondays for one session, then the next session sits in a Part 1 course, then back to service, then takes the Plato class, then service, etc. She doesn't wear a skirt either, and she says no one has complained.
So apparently, in New York at least, the School is not as rigid as it's first face. It seems it is possible to behave as an individual within this rigid system and not be removed.
RE the note-taking -- it occurs to me that Bella and goblinboy are really describing the same action, they just differ in their perspective of what the higher-ups do with the notes. If your personal experiences of the org have been of benefit to you, the note-taking will seem benign. But if you've experienced the School interfering with your personal life, if your family life is so interwoven with the School that expulsion would really cause personal loss, then I can see note-taking would seem much more threatening. I've never noticed assistants writing notes during class, though that doesn't mean they don't do it after.
NYC
So apparently, in New York at least, the School is not as rigid as it's first face. It seems it is possible to behave as an individual within this rigid system and not be removed.
RE the note-taking -- it occurs to me that Bella and goblinboy are really describing the same action, they just differ in their perspective of what the higher-ups do with the notes. If your personal experiences of the org have been of benefit to you, the note-taking will seem benign. But if you've experienced the School interfering with your personal life, if your family life is so interwoven with the School that expulsion would really cause personal loss, then I can see note-taking would seem much more threatening. I've never noticed assistants writing notes during class, though that doesn't mean they don't do it after.
NYC
A good friend peformed the...assistant role in another Australian SOP branch...and showed me the notes taken on each member, which comprised comments on what was said, apparent attitudes to the messages, likelihood of the individual continuing with the SOP, suitability to remain in the group, etc.
Goblinboy, was this like a blank form that your friend filled in? or was it more narrative style, a blank page, which would leave what type of notes were taken mush more up to the individual assistant?
-
Free Thinker
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:05 am
- Location: USA
When I was in the school, notes were always taken on a yellow legal pad - totally freehand. It was up to the discretion of the note-taker what was written down and what wasn't. And when I did it, I was not given any guidelines as to what sort of things to taken down and what not to write.
I suspect that the UK schools are more involved and more "Big Brother"y about it than the US ones.
I suspect that the UK schools are more involved and more "Big Brother"y about it than the US ones.
NYC wrote:
Goblinboy, was this like a blank form that your friend filled in? or was it more narrative style, a blank page, which would leave what type of notes were taken mush more up to the individual assistant?
NYC,
No proforma used - just freehand, but detailed accounts of what was said, followed by "editorial" comments concerning the student's apparent attitudes to the teaching, acceptance or otherwise of the messages, and suitability for further participation in the SOP. A multipage report was compiled from these notes at the conclusion of each term.
GB
-
Free Thinker
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:05 am
- Location: USA
The Boston Tea party
?It?s not like that now? is the new SES mantra. It was the same mantra when the Secret Cult was published 21 years ago. But in reality nothing of substance has changed.
Behind the scenes Lambie, SES ?leader? and closet St James governor, undoubtedly remains the rigid control freak he always was. Any flexibility that one might allow to be developed over the years as a result of absorbing into one?s being the fundamental principles of Advaita are, in Lambie?s case, kept firmly in check at the dermatological level.
His recent emergency excursion to Boston where, once again as 231 years ago, the natives were restless and started throwing philosophical tea- crates into the harbour, is a case in point (pun intended).
(For ex-St James pupils whose history education stopped with Hipshon at Magna Carta and have not had the opportunity to make good this gap in their education, the Boston Tea Party started the War of Independence out of which the USA was born. Whether the creation of the USA was a Good Thing is a question for a different web site?.but I digress).
Confronted earlier this year with a ?rebel breakaway? by Dr. John Lehmann, leader of the Boston SES for nearly two decades, Lambie, like George III and Lord North before him, summoned reinforcements from the trusty Barry Steingard, head honcho of the New York SES garrison and laid siege to the Boston outpost.
Having read the Riot Act to the remaining faithful who had not joined the rebels he installed temporary emergency administration and issued an edict (not entirely dissimilar in spirit from the Coercive Acts of 1774) summarily forbidding the SES ?Leaders? worldwide from having any contact with Lehmann and his rebel rabble.
It is in these sad and fundamentally flawed responses that the hypocrisy of the SES always grins through, like a persistent stain that won?t go away. It is in these emergency situations that the real inner SES values emerge, where maintaining the outward show of ?unity? of the Empire takes precedence over applying the teaching of Advaita, where being ?in control? takes precedence over humanity and compassion and where, above all else the London SES has to maintain the position of ?Capo di Tutti I Capi? and show the colonials who is boss.
Shantanand Saraswati had an analogy for that as he did for most things: the immature student is like a learner driver, fine on the open road in light traffic but always pressing the accelerator instead of the brake when an emergency occurs.
It is surely the act of a megalomaniac missionary to try to forbid communication between two dozen or so ?SES school leaders? across the globe, grown men supposedly with a mind of their own, with someone they have known and shared experiences with for 20 years or more.
No doubt apart from a few truly misguided brown-nosers the leaders are quietly ignoring the edict, but secretly, so Lambie can continue to feel ?in control? and they won?t get into trouble. It is all a leftover from the Gurdjieff value system of the 1920?s and 30?s which was applied in a completely different context of time and place.
What a pathetic situation but what a giveaway as to the underlying mechanical nature of the manipulative SES control of everything within its reach. Not that the general run of students would get a whiff of any of these background shenanigans. They would just be told : "The Boston King is dead long live the King. Hurrah! Hurrah!"
Behind the scenes Lambie, SES ?leader? and closet St James governor, undoubtedly remains the rigid control freak he always was. Any flexibility that one might allow to be developed over the years as a result of absorbing into one?s being the fundamental principles of Advaita are, in Lambie?s case, kept firmly in check at the dermatological level.
His recent emergency excursion to Boston where, once again as 231 years ago, the natives were restless and started throwing philosophical tea- crates into the harbour, is a case in point (pun intended).
(For ex-St James pupils whose history education stopped with Hipshon at Magna Carta and have not had the opportunity to make good this gap in their education, the Boston Tea Party started the War of Independence out of which the USA was born. Whether the creation of the USA was a Good Thing is a question for a different web site?.but I digress).
Confronted earlier this year with a ?rebel breakaway? by Dr. John Lehmann, leader of the Boston SES for nearly two decades, Lambie, like George III and Lord North before him, summoned reinforcements from the trusty Barry Steingard, head honcho of the New York SES garrison and laid siege to the Boston outpost.
Having read the Riot Act to the remaining faithful who had not joined the rebels he installed temporary emergency administration and issued an edict (not entirely dissimilar in spirit from the Coercive Acts of 1774) summarily forbidding the SES ?Leaders? worldwide from having any contact with Lehmann and his rebel rabble.
It is in these sad and fundamentally flawed responses that the hypocrisy of the SES always grins through, like a persistent stain that won?t go away. It is in these emergency situations that the real inner SES values emerge, where maintaining the outward show of ?unity? of the Empire takes precedence over applying the teaching of Advaita, where being ?in control? takes precedence over humanity and compassion and where, above all else the London SES has to maintain the position of ?Capo di Tutti I Capi? and show the colonials who is boss.
Shantanand Saraswati had an analogy for that as he did for most things: the immature student is like a learner driver, fine on the open road in light traffic but always pressing the accelerator instead of the brake when an emergency occurs.
It is surely the act of a megalomaniac missionary to try to forbid communication between two dozen or so ?SES school leaders? across the globe, grown men supposedly with a mind of their own, with someone they have known and shared experiences with for 20 years or more.
No doubt apart from a few truly misguided brown-nosers the leaders are quietly ignoring the edict, but secretly, so Lambie can continue to feel ?in control? and they won?t get into trouble. It is all a leftover from the Gurdjieff value system of the 1920?s and 30?s which was applied in a completely different context of time and place.
What a pathetic situation but what a giveaway as to the underlying mechanical nature of the manipulative SES control of everything within its reach. Not that the general run of students would get a whiff of any of these background shenanigans. They would just be told : "The Boston King is dead long live the King. Hurrah! Hurrah!"
-
Free Thinker
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:05 am
- Location: USA
"It's not like that now or anymore" is what my mother always said to defend the SoPP after I left.
I'm glad to hear about Dr. Lehmann "defecting" because I always liked him and felt like the people in Boston were a little saner than in NY.
Lambie is (in my best Monty Python voice) and "utter twit". That man is so pathetic. And such an asshole at the same time. He certainly wouldn't be able to find a woman willing to marry him if they hadn't groomed one of his students to be his current wife. She gets to sit up at the front of the room next to him during meetings but God forbid she be allowed to talk.
ETA: "Groomed" is my own spin on the situation. I don't know how it happened but I do know that he was her teacher while she was still in high school.
Last edited by Free Thinker on Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
SES reporting on students
Hello everyone,
You guys are right about the ?class notes? in Part 1 ? 9 or so not being all that important or sinister (they can reveal a lot about the note-writer though!) but how do you think people in part 20 or part 50 find themselves in group A rather than group B, in ?Level Z? rather than ?Level Y?? How do you think you get promoted from private to sergeant to Colonel in the US Army? How do you get to be Field Marshal? Of course there is endless 'confidential' discussion about everyone in any hierarchical organisation. But have you not heard of the 'oral tradition' . The SES has it in spades. The dodgy stuff is never in writing!
The SES management culture is one where everybody is expected, in the name of ?truth? to disclose, on an upward only basis, to more ?senior? students personal information about a particular person (which may have been obtained in any form of public or private meeting, in a seminar, in a tutorial, in a one-to-one meditation ?check? or anywhere else) in order to help the student ?develop?. High level controllers such as Boddy, Sinclair and Lambie can get information from almost anyone about almost anyone including present governors of St James ( Boddy?s new ?employers?!). Since knowledge is power, they can control accordingly. As for the rest of us?it?s great having someone else taking all the decisions!
St James pupils with SES parents are in a double bind as their parents are also subject to disclosure about themselves and the children feel they are potentially threatened and have their privacy invaded from all sides. It was probably no different in a small Sicilian town in the 1920?s where the priest ran the show and the teachers and the parents all met in the trattoria. No doubt if the priest was a truly holy and innocent man and the teacher was dedicated and without any psychological hang-ups it was a great and wholesome set-up. But how often does Jupiter align with Mars and how long can that last before the Mafia take over the show?
Lambie and the SES hierarchy will officially pretend the St James inquiry is nothing to do with the SES and it is all just a bad dream (which it may well be turning out to be for them). Boddy will almost certainly deny that this kind of reporting on pupils and teachers happens in St James today ?.?but then he would wouldn?t he?
You guys are right about the ?class notes? in Part 1 ? 9 or so not being all that important or sinister (they can reveal a lot about the note-writer though!) but how do you think people in part 20 or part 50 find themselves in group A rather than group B, in ?Level Z? rather than ?Level Y?? How do you think you get promoted from private to sergeant to Colonel in the US Army? How do you get to be Field Marshal? Of course there is endless 'confidential' discussion about everyone in any hierarchical organisation. But have you not heard of the 'oral tradition' . The SES has it in spades. The dodgy stuff is never in writing!
The SES management culture is one where everybody is expected, in the name of ?truth? to disclose, on an upward only basis, to more ?senior? students personal information about a particular person (which may have been obtained in any form of public or private meeting, in a seminar, in a tutorial, in a one-to-one meditation ?check? or anywhere else) in order to help the student ?develop?. High level controllers such as Boddy, Sinclair and Lambie can get information from almost anyone about almost anyone including present governors of St James ( Boddy?s new ?employers?!). Since knowledge is power, they can control accordingly. As for the rest of us?it?s great having someone else taking all the decisions!
St James pupils with SES parents are in a double bind as their parents are also subject to disclosure about themselves and the children feel they are potentially threatened and have their privacy invaded from all sides. It was probably no different in a small Sicilian town in the 1920?s where the priest ran the show and the teachers and the parents all met in the trattoria. No doubt if the priest was a truly holy and innocent man and the teacher was dedicated and without any psychological hang-ups it was a great and wholesome set-up. But how often does Jupiter align with Mars and how long can that last before the Mafia take over the show?
Lambie and the SES hierarchy will officially pretend the St James inquiry is nothing to do with the SES and it is all just a bad dream (which it may well be turning out to be for them). Boddy will almost certainly deny that this kind of reporting on pupils and teachers happens in St James today ?.?but then he would wouldn?t he?
Gandalf wrote:a ?rebel breakaway? by Dr. John Lehmann, leader of the Boston SES for nearly two decades, Lambie, like George III and Lord North before him, summoned reinforcements from the trusty Barry Steingard, head honcho of the New York SES garrison and laid siege to the Boston outpost.
do you happen to know if John Lehmann is aware of this site? Any details you have regarding the 'rebel breakaway' would be much appreciated.
I would think that many of the sister schools worldwide, once they become aware of these allegations, would think twice about continuing to affiliate w/ London...both from an ethical desire to separate themselves from the creepiness, and also from a more selfish desire on the part of school leaders to become 'in charge' in their own neighborhood.
Return to “General discussion of SES”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests