The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.

The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby StVSurvivor » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:04 pm

trubleshtr wrote:I am also trying to find out more about the Holy man the SES are in contact with, Shri Vasudevananda, and his political connections in India. Donald Lambie, Shane Mulhall and Barry Steingard were due to meet with him last year but it had to be aborted due to the trouble in Mumbai and is being reorganised I understand.

Sounds like you've been fed more SES spin and lies I'm afraid.

The reason the trip was aborted had nothing whatsoever to do with the trouble in Mumbai, which is nowhere near Shri Vasudevananda's location. In fact this "holy man" hadn't actually agreed to see them but they decided to travel to India anyway, then when they got there he refused to give them an audience, saying that they weren't yet at an elevated enough level of consciousness to be worthy of his time and that they should go away and improve themselves.

Then when they returned to England the SES put out the story that Troubleshooter was fed above and that in fact this guru was not authentic and had a criminal record. Later on Roger Pincham's two daughters visited another "holy man" at a different Indian ashram, and he is now arranging for this latest guru to meet with Lambie et al.

trubleshtr wrote:Dear StVSurvivor, Now I am confused. Shri Vasudevananda took over from Shantanda Saraswati as I understand it. No one in the SES has said that he is a criminal that I know of. There are reports that he may be involved with right wing politics in India though which is what I want to find out about. The information that I was given about the trip of the three of them was given verbally by Donald Lambie at a meeting of 200 or so SES senior members in January 2009, so if it is not true then he is taking some risks! Please if you have any proof of this lets have it. When did Pinchams daughters go and who is this other new Holy man? If you can shed any more light on this it would help a lot. Thanks.

My sources regarding the aborted trip to India are from two senior SES members.

Shri Vasudevananda sent a letter saying the timing was not appropriate for their visit. They nevertheless decided to go. When they arrived they were refused an audience on the basis that their consciousness was not sufficiently developed. The line about the criminal record was given out as a reason for them deciding not to see him.

Regarding Pincham's daughters and the latest Holy man, I will post more when I can gather further details.
StVSurvivor
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:04 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby xseeker » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:00 pm

....... I understand that there was a request through Jaiswal last year for money for Vasudevand ,for services rendered down through the years.

There was a "selected" worldwide whiparound. Ireland and USA came up with the most money ,(England came in third).

The Irish and New York leaders got a place in the delegation with DL due to the amount of funds raised. It was not clear to them , whether they would be allowed ask questions or just Donald Lambie.

The money ( 750, 0000?) was sent last Autumn. They were convinced this would guarantee an audience.


Over 450, 000 of this money was used by Vasudevand to buy a 4000 sq ft penhouse apartment in downtown Delhi, which is now staffed with servants,

This apartment was bought as Vasudevand had no "appropriate" place to stay when he visited Delhi.
Vehicles were also purchased for him to travel in....
They are still awaiting feedback on what he did with the rest of the money .

Members of the delegation visited this penthouse at the time to view what the money was spent on and spoke with the servants.. and attempted to conduct research on Vasudevand,
as to his bona fides.

This fundraising appears to be separate from the Jyoti Trust , which apparently sent 351,000 to India last year. Accounts are now with the Uk Charity commission.

How can they explain such extravagant expenditure?
xseeker
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:03 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby trubleshtr » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:18 pm

Hi xseeker

I just received a reply from Jeremy Sinclair a couple of hours ago regarding how money from the Jyoti Trust has been spent and he didn't put it quite like that! Although he did mention a flat in Delhi he didn't mention a Penthouse or 4000 sq feet or vehicles, and said this was due to Mr Jaiswal's health - so that Mr Lambie can have an audience with Shri Vasudevananda. I could copy you the email. I officially give up! The more I try to find out the more confused I become. Have you any sources about this?

Trubleshtr
trubleshtr
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby xseeker » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:58 am

Vasudevanda is not regarded in India as a "proper" Shankarachyra. He is banned by law from collecting funds in India. See excerpt from a Court ruling in Allahabad.

"On Feb. 22, 1999, Mrdulesh Kumar Singh, the Second Additional Judge at Allahabad issued a formal restraining order against Swami Vasudevananda. In the order, he explains that having reviewed the case (for nine years!) the court believes Swarupananda to have the better claim to the gaddi, for historical reasons and in that he has the support of the Sankaracaryas of the other amnaya piths (at Dwaraka, Sringeri and Puri). Furthermore, the order relates, Vasudevananda’s installation is also suspect. This being the situation, Vasudevananda is disallowed from using the title Sankaracarya, traveling as the Sankaracarya, or collecting funds as the Sankaracarya until such time as the case might be formally decided in his favor. "

link from which extract is taken:
http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldli ... 20687.html
xseeker
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:03 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby trubleshtr » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:04 am

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage
by xseeker on Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:00 pm

I sent xseekers questions to Jeremy Sinclair, a Trustee of the Jyoti Trust, and he has responded so I thought it would be useful to post his responses, since he did say he did not mind. The only thing I would add is that I do remember there being talk some time ago about money being requested through Mr Jaiswal.

Jeremy's answers are in italics:


....... I understand that there was a request through Jaiswal last year for money for Vasudevand ,for services rendered down through the years.
To the best of my knowledge, there never has been a request from the Ashram or HH. I understand that it is part of their tradition not to ask.

There was a "selected" worldwide whiparound. Ireland and USA came up with the most money ,(England came in third).
There was an appeal. England did not come third; if I remember right it came first, but wouldn’t swear to it

The Irish and New York leaders got a place in the delegation with DL due to the amount of funds raised. It was not clear to them , whether they would be allowed ask questions or just Donald Lambie.
Not so. Money doesn’t buy audiences or the right to put questions

The money ( 750, 0000?) was sent last Autumn. They were convinced this would guarantee an audience.
Not so, see above. We wouldn’t want an audience that was bought.


Over 450, 000 of this money was used by Vasudevand to buy a 4000 sq ft penhouse apartment in downtown Delhi, which is now staffed with servants,
It is a first floor flat. For servants, I would read disciples
This apartment was bought as Vasudevand had no "appropriate" place to stay when he visited Delhi.
This is I believe true

Vehicles were also purchased for him to travel in....
Yes some years ago, a bus was bought for the Ashram in Allahabad

They are still awaiting feedback on what he did with the rest of the money .
We are not waiting for feedback A flat was bought as well as piece of land for the construction of a centre.

Members of the delegation visited this penthouse ( see above) at the time to view what the money was spent on and spoke with the servants. ( see above) and attempted to conduct research on Vasudevand, as to his bona fides
Not so. One of the Trust members was interested to see the apartment and so went to visit it. He did meet a disciple.

This fundraising appears to be separate from the Jyoti Trust
(Don’t quite get the question. The Trust receives donations which are sent to the Indian Trust. which apparently sent 351,000 to India last year. Accounts are now with the Uk Charity commission.
True, our accounts are sent to the Commission

How can they explain such extravagant expenditure?
What have been bought are the flat and the land for a potential centre for HH and his disciples to use. Property prices are what they are. The idea is that the flat will be sold to fund the construction of the centre.
trubleshtr
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby xseeker » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:18 pm

Jeremy's replies are most interesting in what he says or rather does not say.

The phrase "To the best of my knowledge" gives him an out , when irrefutable evidence comes out that there was a request. ( Which there was!!!!)

What is the difference between an "appeal" and a request?

There is an element of cognitive dissonance at play here.

If one keeps in mind that the gateway/filter , to Vasudevanada., is Mr Jaiswal.

When Mr Jaiswal wishes to talk to Vasudevanda he just calls him on mobile.

He is the purveyor/ translator of messages and "appeals".
( Some say he plays the role of puppeteer, on occasion Donald et al being the unwitting puppets)


Some of the money that goes to the Jyoti Trust is taken from the meditation initiation money.

This fact is deliberately withheld from the intending initiates, which is somewhat alarming.

Surely , they have a right to know!!
xseeker
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:03 pm

Postby Free » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:44 pm

<delete>
Last edited by Free on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Free
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:30 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby xseeker » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:57 pm

Free,

"... Some of the money that goes to the Jyoti Trust is taken from the meditation initiation money."

As Jeremy has answered other questions about the Jyoti Trust, perhaps he will confirm this one.

xseeker
xseeker
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:03 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby xseeker » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:14 pm

Extract from 2008 Accounts

"THE JYOTIRNIDHI NYASA TRUST

TRUSTEES ANNUAL REPORT (continued)

FOR THE YEAR ENDED 31st DECEMBER 2008

FINANCIAL AND RESERVES

Donations receivable for the year totalled £477,941 and Grants made to The Jyotirnidhi Nyasa Trust in

India totalled £346,000. The grants were to assist The Jyotinirdhi Nyasa Trust in India to purchase land and a building in order to further its charitable objectives. Net incoming resources for the year were

£130,436 (2007: £83,741).

RESERVES

The free reserves of the Trust at 31st December 2008 amounted to £271,212 (2007: £140,776).
The trustees intend to make further Grants to The Jyotinirdhi Nyasa Trust in India by 30th June 2009 in order to reduce the Trust's reserves to approximately £50,000."


Charity commission link below:

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Sh ... ryNumber=0

xseeker
xseeker
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:03 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby woodgreen » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:30 am

Have been researching the Indian connection. Vesudevennand is apparently the Patron of "The Initiative Creating World Peace with Vedic Pandits" which is the latest "wheeze" of the Maharishi Corporation and is aiming to raise $4 billion for "a new country without borders". OMG. Maybe the SES have been subsumed into the Maharishi's lot after all? Very curious.He is also described as the Shankacharya of Joyir Math. http://www.vedicpandits.org/initiative.html. (Hope this link works if not try Google!).
Ex-SES Member. (Member for 3 years in late nineties).
woodgreen
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby morrigan » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:46 am

Would it have been fun in St James if a guru had suggested and insisted on acting out Holi and having the children playing with all sorts of colours, throwing paint on each other and the teachers and the parents? Not just the meditation but the physical symbolisms.
User avatar
morrigan
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:06 am

Postby Free » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:07 pm

<delete>
Last edited by Free on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Free
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:30 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby xseeker » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:17 pm

Breaking news.....
Donald Lambie, Shane Mulhall and Barry Steingard had flights booked to India to meet Vasudevanada
on Thursday 25th Feb 2010. The meeting was aborted with just hours to departure.
Apparently it was cancelled by Vasudevanada.
xseeker
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:03 pm

Postby Free » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:03 pm

<delete>
Last edited by Free on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Free
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:30 pm

Re: The truth behind SES leaders' aborted Indian pilgrimage

Postby morrigan » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:13 pm

Free wrote:
xseeker wrote:Breaking news.....
Donald Lambie, Shane Mulhall and Barry Steingard had flights booked to India to meet Vasudevanada
on Thursday 25th Feb 2010. The meeting was aborted with just hours to departure.
Apparently it was cancelled by Vasudevanada.
That's twice now.
OK, so SES haven't figured this out. Really dim. Well, maybe just a few hundred thousand more and ...
It's amazing how judgement gets overwhelmed by group think. A bit of reflection on the history with their "guru" and a cursory screening of the Internet news from India over the last 5 years (search Vasudevanand, Vasudevananda, Basudevanand) would give even a slow learner pause.


Yes, definitely "really dim" - and they are obviously not respected by Vasudevanada. And that makes sense.
User avatar
morrigan
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:06 am

Next

Return to General discussion of SES

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron