A personal view from a parent.

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
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Merry
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Postby Merry » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:06 pm

Tom and Different Guest,

You have taken one word from Elizabeth's posting and decided to reply in a cynical way. I am quite sure you will be able to justify it in some way but she has been brave in entering the dragons den here and has made an effort to bridge the gap in a way she feels she can. It was offered in good spirit and you could have responded in similar fashion whilst still disagreeing

Whether you agree or not with what she says, if these are the sort of responses that she and others receive you are unlikely to attract other people to come on to the board.

Patrick Wyatt

Planet
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Re: A personal view from a parent.

Postby Planet » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:31 pm

elizabeth edmunds wrote:many people have made sacrifices to send their children there.
I know exactly how my family got on at St James, we talk about it often and I am under no illusions that it was all a bed of roses but I am sure that there was no malicious intent to damage, no intention to brainwash, teachers made mistakes, some quite unacceptable and have had to face the consequences of those mistakes but the mistakes were only a part of the story, so much more that was good took place.


For sure many parents struggled terribly financially in the very early years including my own. Whether it was a "good" investment /sacrifice or not is open to debate. From my own experience there are many truths written on this board regarding events that took place. However on the one hand people talk about reconciliation and on the other hand some appear to be seeking retribution.

If the governors resign, Debenham gives up his trust and the offending teachers get sacked will everyone be happier individuals and in what way? Or is it the current pupils that concern them?

chittani
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Postby chittani » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:46 pm

Elizabeth,

How do you square the idea that we have been brave and true with David Boddy's performance last week? "The governors had never really heard of these allegations before". Que ?

I need hardly go over the evidence that contradicts this ... you know the truth as well as I do.

These people are all your buddies. Your husband is a governor. Of course they are nice civilised people, but they are defending the School at the expense of the truth.

Speaking as a long-standing member of the School, and someone committed to its present and future, I cannot support your approach.

It is time to abandon sentiment and be reasonable.

chittani
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Postby chittani » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:51 pm

And I must differ from my honoured friend Merry.

It may be uncomfortable to be grilled by a journalist when you know you are on shaky ground. But if you have firm foundations you won't be troubled by any hard questions.

You can't say, "please don't question anything I say because it was very brave of me to come on here".

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Merry
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Postby Merry » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:40 pm

Hi Chittani,

How dare you disagree with me! It's outrageous! :painting:

Actually you have inadvertantly given an example of what I was trying to convey in the way you have responded to EE. It is the spirit in which people respond to others that is important.

Why Anton seems aggrieved that the Edmunds were able to afford to send their six pack to St J is beyond me. I would also take issue with the assumption that SES members view meditation and Mozart as their own property ? what a ludicrous view that would be!

Olive wreaths? Von Ribbentropp? Hitler?s salute? Donner und Blitzen Anton!

Gravitate to the luv y'all

Patrick

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Keir
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Postby Keir » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:58 pm

We are not really all dragons anyway,

I myself am quite attractive. :eggface:

Of course I do want people to stop trying to tell me what a wonderful place it all was - who didn't actually experience it for themselves. What a boy may or may not tell his mother is greatly variant dependent on family atmosphere, closeness of parent, trust, and a whole range of other factors.

One of the factors that has been discussed at great length on this BB is the lack of communication between pupils and their SES parents. There has also been discussion about the 'minimising' that has always gone on in the SES of feelings.

I would imagine as a long time establishment figure in the whole set up and a proud mother of 6 ex pupils you would have plenty of experience of other families and children? No, you have one experience I have another.

I think it is important that this illegal behaviour is not minimised yet again as it has been throughout my time in St J and SES. I am not of the opinion that there was no malicious intent. I am of the opinion that someone in the SES for as long as you have been and someone as involved in the day schools as you are would not have the objectivity necessary to see what was going on.

I have known what were on the face of it perfectly decent and affable human beings turn in to sadistic compassionless bullies in an instant (particularly when any ladies had left the room)(wobbly chitta don't ya know). I have seen people treated despicably by people you probably respect a great deal in the SES and in St James.

Are you telling me I am lying? If you for once stopped thinking you knew the truth of it and really listened, and accepted as Mr Townend did that these things did happen, how would you feel? Lucky that it didn't happen to your children? Anxious to do what you could to help, or would you simply dismiss all and everything that disagreed with your view?

I am sure you have no idea why saying what you were saying is so inflamatory, but it is the same attitude that I experienced from the age of 8 upwards. If they actually knew best why are we here talking about the aftermath of a private enquiry that found illegal abusive behaviour was taking place by teachers against children?

1980sstJ
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Postby 1980sstJ » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:20 pm

You talk of the abusers being "courageous".

And you are entitled to your view.

I think the children that they sadistically abused are far more courageous.

As I say, you are entitled to your view.

But I pity you for being able to brush aside the sadistic abuse of children so lightly. I would hate to be that cold.

Good luck to you and your family, anyway.

1980sstJ
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Re: A personal view from a parent.

Postby 1980sstJ » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:23 pm

Tom Grubb wrote:
a different guest wrote:
elizabeth edmunds wrote: mistakes


Oh there's that word again :|

Yes, "teachers made mistakes" sounds so much nicer than, say, "teachers deliberately beat pupils up" or "teachers struck pupils full force with cricket bats" or "teachers deliberately punched pupils in the face".


Well said, Tom. But I fear that she isn't going to listen.

"Courageous" child abusers, indeed!

Tom Grubb
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Postby Tom Grubb » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:39 pm

And well said, 1980sstJ!

Tom Grubb
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Postby Tom Grubb » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:59 pm

Merry wrote:Tom and Different Guest,

You have taken one word from Elizabeth's posting and decided to reply in a cynical way. I am quite sure you will be able to justify it in some way but she has been brave in entering the dragons den here and has made an effort to bridge the gap in a way she feels she can. It was offered in good spirit and you could have responded in similar fashion whilst still disagreeing

Whether you agree or not with what she says, if these are the sort of responses that she and others receive you are unlikely to attract other people to come on to the board.

Patrick Wyatt

It's simply not true that I've taken one word from Elizabeth's posting (see my first reply on this thread) or, I think, that I've replied in a cynical way. Also, I don't think she's been particularly courageous.

As 1980sstJ rightly points out, we're talking about child abuse here, not "mistakes". Elizabeth's SES ran schools where children were, to quote Mr Townend, "criminally assaulted". The thugs who beat up and abused my friends and so many other children were not making "mistakes" - ADG is quite right to pick up on that word - they knew exactly what they were doing and, I'm becoming more and more convinced, so did Leonardo da Vinci MacLaren, the SES's and Elizabeth's godman.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:09 pm

chittani wrote:Elizabeth,

How do you square the idea that we have been brave and true with David Boddy's performance last week? "The governors had never really heard of these allegations before". Que ?
.


A dang good question - so worth repeating.

And Merry - I have heard/seen the word 'mistake' too many times in the SES response - it has obviously become the party line. Hardly helpful if any true reconciliation is to take place.

Meanwhile, I wonder if the girls in Art of Hospitality can combine this with their mountaineering experience and tkae up extreme ironing?

Image

1980sstJ
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Postby 1980sstJ » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:34 pm

I have thought more about your description of the abusers as "courageous".

Perhaps I was too harsh on you.

I have looked afresh at the adults who punched little children in the face, who threw cricket balls at little childrens' heads while they were not looking, who pinned little children down and punched them over and over in the stomach, and who kicked children in the balls.

They did all that and more.

I can see that such men who did that and who suddenly, decades on, when their crimes were being exposed via the internet, and when the police and parliament were asking questions about them, when all this happened, they suddenly decided to make empty statements about conciliation, are in fact "courageous".

Oh yes, beat little children up and abuse them and when you think you might get in trouble for it, then suddenly make empty gestures. The very DEFINITION of courageous.

Listen, Mrs Edmunds, I can't begin to imagine how you can come to such ludicrous conclusions.

You should be thoroughly ashamed.

Alban
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Re: A personal view from a parent.

Postby Alban » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:46 pm

elizabeth edmunds wrote:I had only intended to write one posting, this is your site...


Why bother then!

Seriously - this board like all others of its type is about communication...not just sticking your oar in then walking away when the criticism comes flying.

Come on, stay, answer some questions. How about actually finding out about the large numbers of people who have different experiences to you. Are you worried that you may not have answers to the questions and experiences we have to offer.

I have no idea what you hope to achieve by a single posting, but you're actually just propogating the image of the head-in-the-sand SES hierarchy.

...or am I asking a leopard to change its spots?


Alban


BTW ADG, Did anyone tell that bloke he has forgotten to plug the iron in.[/b]

Temporarily Duped
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Day Schools

Postby Temporarily Duped » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:27 am

I can't believe what I read in some of the posts on this board.
Last edited by Temporarily Duped on Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

sugarloaf
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Postby sugarloaf » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:28 am

Welcome elizabeth,

thats quite a response to your post!

elizabeth wrote:
They are all well balanced, the boys do not attend the philosophy school but the girls have joined the foundation girls group.

Although I started attending the philosophy school just before my oldest son joined St James?

?.the connection with the School of Philosophy has in my view provided??

Of course the St James Schools and the Philosophy School have evolved??.


The philosophy school? Forgive my cynicism, but youre not privy to some insider information about a very timely SES name change and rebranding exercise are you?

On a more genuine note - This isnt 'our board' it belongs to Mike, and everyone here, including you, are guests. If you feel you have something to say, and have made the effort to register here, I feel you ought to stay, and as alban says, answer genuine questions about what you have said. You may feel like youve walked into the dragons den, that youve received a barrage of criticism, but if you genuinly believe in what you say I'm sure you'll have the confidence to engage in dialogue and and answer questions or criticisms.

I'm sure you appreciate that apart from being bad manners, lobbing some personal opinions into a discussion and then walking away would not be the best PR for an organisation that for many here has a reputation for arrogance and blind self belief

Please stick around and converse. We dont bite.


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