SES Forums

FT - also keep in mind that this cult is very much a product of the British class system - that influence is very much in evidence in the posts of the current students.

Well done FT, you have brought it back down to earth.

I know there are some passionate people here, god knows I'm one of them, but it doesn't do anyone any good if the discussions dissolve into slanging matches or who has the most friends competitions.

I am heartily glad that many things have changed for the better at the current school. Before any one of the new pupils' post appeared I knew that - that is not the issue for me.

There is some thought that there is more change to be accomplished. There is a wide variety of opinion as to how much, of what, and how it can be accomplished.

I can respect that a current pupil will have more up to date info on the practical elements of his schooling than I will, but any suggestion that I might have some relevant experience of life that they might not be aware of is often met with derision and defensiveness by some, denial by others.

Its not nice to be told that you are brainwashed, for anyone. It implies a psychological weakness and as an accusation is hurtful. I do think that there has been a subtle influencing of behaviour and attitude - subtle enough that it took highly intelligent posters a long while to figure it out. If you then try to belittle our experience and our discoveries that all was not right or what it seemed, then you insult not only our intelligence but our struggle to survive it intact. This is deeply hurtful, and will provoke anger.

To understand the scepticism from some of the posters that you wont in 5-10 years time or less start experiencing difficulty with anger, or attitudes that jarr uncomfortably with society, you have to understand that they didn't think that anything was wrong either when they left a school that they were dismissive of at the time.

But read that post on Anger problems and then re read your posts Sam and Theo and tell me that there isn't cause to wonder if some things haven't changed after all.

It's funny that it is so hard to hear that you might be controlled without knowing it while you are a member of an organization. And yet, once you are out and experiencing many personal problems, it is a relief to find out!

I was very relieved to find out that so many others who were members were experiencing the same situations and problems as me, and that the issues I had with the school were real. At the time, and afterwards, my mother tried to assure me that the problems I had were personal ones. Like there was something wrong with me, or that I, personally, had issues with some of the leaders. but it wasn't!

I believe that either MM or parent brought up how futile it is to fight it when you are involved. If things that are bad happen to you, you deserve them. So you don't say anything even when you see injustices or when you are mistreated. Since illness and disability come from a previous life and you "earned" them, you are taught that you should just have a "stiff upper lip" and go on even when you are ill. And that you shouldn't speak up when you don't feel well because it is weak. I can't begin to explain all of the physical and emotional problems that attitude has caused me.

A couple of things:

you are taught that you should just have a "stiff upper lip" and go on even when you are ill. And that you shouldn't speak up when you don't feel well because it is weak.

FT, that may have been the prevailing attitude where you were, or it may be something you understood to be the case, but it's certainly not the prevailing attitude here. If someone is obviously ill at group/service, they're told they should either rest or go home (if they haven't made that choice themselves yet). If someone is on residential and they're unwell, they're told they should either rest or go home. The point is continually made that you need to pay attention to what your body is telling you - if it's telling you it's sick, attend to it. Yes, there is an implied difference between pandering and attending, but knowing this difference is left up to the sick person in question. We have a few here who suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and I'm sure you're aware of the dubious image that has in some circles. It's nonetheless treated as a genuine chronic illness, and allowances are made wherever necessary, often pre-empted before the sufferer mentions it. I don't mean to jump on a soapbox, but the remark about "keeping a stiff upper lip because that's your sanskara" is just so far removed from my experience, I wanted to say something.

This isn't confined to my little burb - Brisbane, Sydney, and Melbourne tutors have all said this in my hearing. I wouldn't be surprised if the stiff upper lip thing is a prevailing attitude elsewhere - I think it's one of those things that's wide open to personal interpretation, and there would be more than a few who think "I am not this body" means I should be able to stand naked on a glacier while pouring liquid nitrogen over my head. I guess it depends on where you run with it, and who taught you.

Secondly, Keir and FT - could you direct me to your posts on the subject of realising the SES/SOP was not what you wanted to be doing, if they exist? I would really like to hear about those moments of epiphany, if they happened, and what was going through your mind before, during and after. No, I don't have a thing to say about it - I'm just interested.

there would be more than a few who think "I am not this body" means I should be able to stand naked on a glacier while pouring liquid nitrogen over my head

Oh yes - yet another classic SES doctrine - "I am not my body, it is just an instrument for my use". I suppose that is what they expected us to focus on whilst they physically abused us.

Oh yes - yet another classic SES doctrine - "I am not my body, it is just an instrument for my use". I suppose that is what they expected us to focus on whilst they physically abused us.

Enough to make someone schizophrenic.

Bonsai[code][/code]

Bella, with all due respect I don't know you and it is inapropriate to divulge highly personal information to what amounts to an email address. Besides which, in my experience, a lot of people who attend the SES tend not to be so good at handling others emotion, and are not so in touch with theirs.

If you cannot see a reason for leaving the SES and you are in a branch of the school that doesn't have bullying tutors, then good for you.

I personally witnessed the most shocking behaviour by the old number 2 and the new head of the SES. This accounts for my suspicion that nothing much has chaged.

bella wrote:If someone is on residential and they're unwell, they're told they should either rest or go home. The point is continually made that you need to pay attention to what your body is telling you - if it's telling you it's sick, attend to it. Yes, there is an implied difference between pandering and attending, but knowing this difference is left up to the sick person in question. We have a few here who suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and I'm sure you're aware of the dubious image that has in some circles. It's nonetheless treated as a genuine chronic illness, and allowances are made wherever necessary, often pre-empted before the sufferer mentions it.

That's good to hear. Big change from recent practice.

bella wrote: there would be more than a few who think "I am not this body" means I should be able to stand naked on a glacier while pouring liquid nitrogen over my head. I guess it depends on where you run with it, and who taught you.

No shortage of anecdotes here from SES people down here telling me in sing song voices how they fell off ladders and "floated happily to the ground" (I kid you not), or avoided other physical trauma, using that approach.

Falling with style.....?

thought that character was two dimensional celluloid

Keir -

If you cannot see a reason for leaving the SES...

I didn't say that, but I do respect your not wanting to speak to me about it. I asked for personal reasons, not as an intellectual exercise. Just saying.

Hi Bella,

I'd be happy to share with you about when I left, and how I felt, etc. but I'm off to my local knitting group. (I actually enjoyed my sewing classes in school, although I was equally at home when I went to rock climbing summer camp.)

I'll post again this weekend about it.

daska wrote:Falling with style.....?

thought that character was two dimensional celluloid

Okay, how about this story? It was printed in a magazine of another group who think a body is just the carrier:

I had been using the ethics conditions to sort out a situation I was in and experienced a huge win, a major breakthrough. I was so keyed out that I ran down the passageway... However, I'd forgotten that in this particular passageway there were stairs, and right where the stairs were, the ceiling sloped down.

In my excitement I decided to leap to the bottom of the stairs, and I jumped. My head collided with the sloping ceiling at a very fast speed.
I was exterior and I remember thinking as soon as I perceived the impact,
"That was a mistake!" I was completely aware of what was happening as my body flew through the air... Even though my body was in extreme danger, I had complete certainty I would be OK.

My body crashed to the floor, right where I knew it would. The back of my
head smashed against the concrete floor. In "normal" circumstances my back should have snapped in half and my head should have been very badly damaged. I went back into my body and I didn't feel much pain... and after a couple of minutes I got up off the ground and walked away. I didn't even have a bruise on my head. The onlookers were completely amazed and I took a huge win...

I don't make this up, it was printed in a magazine.

Not one to try as an experiment - but goes to show you can't nail down life.

daska wrote:Falling with style.....?

thought that character was two dimensional celluloid

LOL. Buzz is clearly in need of a bit of Advaita. To the Absolute - and beyond... CGI though, not celluloid

well honestly... *taps foot* ... isn't it more about falling to the ground and missing?????

*wonders how many shaki points Douglass Adams has*