Our Campaign against urs, Parents THIS is what u want 2 hear

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
james
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Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:36 pm

You know what.
Im gonna set up a forum for the people working at Tesco. Why should they have to wear those Tesco tunics, its in breech of there human rights! They should be allowed to go into work in a micro skirt and revealing tube top if they want to!

The Skirt is a uniform, just like people working at a bank have to wear a uniform.

I was looking at cults on the internet, and really the SES scores pretty low. For example the masons, if you are not a member you are not allowed to lay eyes on the master mason, you cannot even look at where he sits! A screen is placed infornt of his "throne"! not even the SES goes that far.

The O
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Postby The O » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:46 pm

After all, the SES owns your schools,all be it, under trust structures to satisfy tax and statutory regulations.

Anthony


I tdidn't say that you did, it was Anthony, so be quiet, do not be rude, snowman. What evidence have we shown in this forum that we speak, write, text or are anything like that?[/quote]
Theo Gould

Snowman
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Postby Snowman » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:54 pm

james wrote:I was looking at cults on the internet, and really the SES scores pretty low.


Hi James,

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the following:

Dr Margaret Singer professor emeritus at the University of California at Berkeley the acknowledged leading authority on mind control and cults has identified specific traits that are common to organisations whose programs promote prescriptive behavioural, emotional, psychological and/or spiritual ?education?. The phrases coined to define the exact methods of influence are particularly poignant and their definitions are immediately relevant and recognisable as methods employed by the SES.

?Coercive psychological systems are behavioural change programs which use psychological force in a coercive way to cause the learning and adoption of an ideology or designated set of beliefs, ideas, attitudes, or behaviours. The essential strategy used by the operators of these programs is to systematically select, sequence and coordinate many different types of coercive influence, anxiety and stress-producing tactics over continuous periods of time.?
http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html?FACTNet

I believe that the SES has constructed its teaching material to specifically instil (in the case of young children) and alter (in the case of adults) behavioural patterns through the use of coercive psychological force. In the boys school of the 70?s and 80?s (and continuing into the 90's) the psychological force was manifest in a culture of fear, anxiety and stress-producing tactics such as the continual threat of physical punishment, humiliation and emotional disruption. From several testimonies on this forum it is clear that the girls suffered a similar style of abuse that is equally, if not more, damaging.

?In such a program the subject is forced to adapt in a series of tiny "invisible" steps. Each tiny step is designed to be sufficiently small so the subjects will not notice the changes in themselves or identify the coercive nature of the processes being used. The subjects of these tactics do not become aware of the hidden organizational purpose of the coercive psychological program until much later, if ever. These tactics are usually applied in a group setting by well intentioned but deceived "friends and allies" of the victim. This keeps the victim from putting up the ego defences we normally maintain in known adversarial situations.?
http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html?FACTNet

There are dozens of ?tiny invisible steps? incorporated into the everyday teaching of both SES and the St James schools. These include meditation, prayers in morning assemblies, philosophy discussions based on the SES material, pausing at the beginning and end of each lesson, referencing all spiritual, cultural and philosophical texts back to the philosophy of advaita. As Alban pointed out on another post, children are at school to learn and a child will generally trust that the authority figures in their lives are telling the truth and that they know better and more than themselves. It is also interesting to note that Dr Singer makes the observation that tactics of coercive influence ?keeps the victim from putting up the ego defences?, this is a cornerstone of the SES teaching and its influence is found ? they claim ? in the advaita teachings.

?The coercive psychological influence of these programs aim to overcome the individual's critical thinking abilities and free will - apart from any appeal to informed judgment. Victims gradually lose their ability to make independent decisions and exercise informed consent. Their critical thinking, defences, cognitive processes, values, ideas, attitudes, conduct and ability to reason are undermined by a technological process rather than by meaningful free choice, rationality, or the inherent merit or value of the ideas or propositions being presented.?
http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html?FACTNet

Dr Singer identified 7 basic tactics that are used to exercise coercive psychological and social influence and to a greater or lesser extent all can be recognised as tactics employed by the SES.

TACTIC 1
Increase suggestibility and "soften up" the individual through specific hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as: Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities, Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction.

TACTIC 2
Establish control over the person's social environment, time and sources of social support by a system of often-excessive rewards and punishments. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered.

TACTIC 3
Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.

TACTIC 4
Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her life's history and adopt a new version of causality.

TACTIC 5
Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's confidence in himself and his judgment.

TACTIC 6
Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques.

TACTIC 7
Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested or implied that failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequences such as physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.


I mentioned in another post that the SES intentionally challenges the student emotionally and psychologically in order to foster a dependency on the institutional policy of the organisation. One could surmise in the context of Dr Singer?s theories that the SES is guilty of incorporating a coercive psychological system in order to exert control over its members.

In the United States such behaviour, it could be argued, violates the rights of individuals guaranteed by the First Amendment to the US Constitution and in Europe, it could be argued, that they violate the rights of the individual under the EU Constitution. In addition they are arguably also illegal practices under such legal terms as: undue influence, intentional infliction of emotional distress and outrageous conduct.

Why would a school subject CHILDREN to extremely damaging emotional, psychological and physical abuse? What did they hope to achieve? The SES will continue to seduce adults and children into becoming followers of dangerous philosophical principles as long as it exists. This is achieved through the indoctrination of young children under the guise of spiritual education, through the philosophy courses for new members by preying on their insecurities, through SES lectures on Economics, Physics, Art, Architecture, Mathematics, Sanskrit etc? through schemes such as the Lucca Leadership Foundation and through the Education Renaissance Trust ? the vehicle which publishes and organises most of the source material that the SCHOOLS are founded upon.

Adults joining the SES are expected to make their own choices with regards to their actions but as Dr Singer suggests, those choices are not necessarily derived from a process of free-will and critical thinking but rather from a technological process of coercive influence. If an adult is vulnerable to such manipulation the what chance does a child stand?

I am desperately saddened as I write this thinking of the many thousands of lives that have been scarred by the dangerous proliferation of demented ideology and its application that is still being practiced at the SES schools for children all over the world.

-------------------

This is taken from one of my previous posts on this BB - so apologies to those who are reading it again.

So, James, SH etc... this is what our school is founded upon and continues to control our school. The sooner that the SES link is severed, non-SES members are appointed to the board of governors and a PTA is established - then I will beleive that ST James is REALLY changing.

Simply buying IT systems, hiring non-SES staff with no executive or 'political' influence, rebranding meditation as 'Quiet Time' and changing the lunchtime protocol does not represent REAL or SIGNIFICANT change.

james
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Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:01 pm

The main foundations of the school were.

The Pause
Meditation
Philosophy
All Teachers must be In the SES

If these have all now changed, how can the change not be "real or "significant".

The pause is not used in 6th form, and 5th form. Meditation is not compusory, dosn't happen at all in the 6th form. Philosophy has become politics in the 6th form. Not all teachers are in the SES.

How is this not significant change! It is a very strong and clear move away from the SES.
Im in a cult? You think? Don't worry the spaceships will be coming soon.

The O
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Postby The O » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:01 pm

Do you honestly expect anyone to read all of that? you just copied and pasted off the internet! Poor show mate, poor show.
Theo Gould

parent
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Postby parent » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:14 pm

Very good show Snowman and many thanks for posting that!

I can relate to most of that which was worked on my child! I witnessed the change in behaviourial patterns, I scrutinised the courses (Mahabharatha etc) and observed how my child's ego was deliberately smashed. The stick and carrot technique.

Thank you Snowman. It all adds up perfectly.

xstJ
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Location: London

Postby xstJ » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:15 pm

The O wrote:Do you honestly expect anyone to read all of that? you just copied and pasted off the internet! Poor show mate, poor show.


Is your attention span really so short Theo?

And please don't be so disrespectful to long-standing contributers to this bb when they take the time to write interesting and informative posts.

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Sam Hyde
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Postby Sam Hyde » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:18 pm

What did I say theo?????

Calm it Harmit

Sam xox
thats old now, like me, only 4 weeks to go!!!!!
"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education"

parent
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:23 am

Postby parent » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:18 pm

Snowman,

Point 6 - Intense humiliation.

This was practiced until fairly recently at Junior School at St. J on a child I know. It is scary and spooky on how everything you have listed is a cult tactic.

Thank you for posting that.

Snowman
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Location: London

Postby Snowman » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:18 pm

The O wrote:Do you honestly expect anyone to read all of that? you just copied and pasted off the internet! Poor show mate, poor show.


Theo and James,

You both seem reluctant to actually engage in any constructive debate, settling instead for flacid and flippant wafts of unsubstantiated and unconnected opinion. That you fail to see yourselves automatically and cosistenly tripping over your own spurious arguments reflects extremely badly on both yourselves and the reputation of our school - mind you, that's going to need a miracle to be resurrected.

The Pause, meditation and philosophy all continue at both junior and senior levels, correct?

The schools could not academically survive without turning to qualified professionals. That is the ONLY reason why non-SES teachers are employed there.

So, the change is not so significant and once again the smooth veneer of "it's all so different now" spin has been applied and you, gents, have fallen for it.

parent
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Postby parent » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:54 pm

Snowman,

I seek your guidance:

In cult style, could the following be accurate:

1) An alien culture/teaching taught at Junior school: Mahabharatha, Sanskrit, veda's, Pause, Nikhilam (the only good bit).......

2) Remove a child's ego. Once ego has gone....control is much easier: Hence, demeaning and meaningless tasks to youngsters. "follow the teacher"no questions asked. etc. etc.

3) Tell children that they are part of a great new renaissance and are receiving a "special"education.

4) Constantly change seating arrangements in class: Control bonded friendships in this way.

5) Humiliate openly: So the child follows and has a broken spirit.

Can I PM you?

sugarloaf
Posts: 98
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Postby sugarloaf » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:20 pm

Hi snowman,

Thank you for your long, but interesting post

Snowman wrote:

I believe that the SES has constructed its teaching material to specifically instill (in the case of young children) and alter (in the case of adults) behavioral patterns through the use of coercive psychological force.


If anyone is in doubt that the SES teaching material is constructed to deliberately manipulate the recipient, it might be worth reading the description of MacLarens experiments on students, as previously posted (I can no longer find the original post)

from: http://www.ouspensky.info/maclareneng.htm

This was written by an SES supporter and lifelong admirer of maclaren:

Like his predecessors, he tried everything to make the most of the research into the truth in every human being. This meant, of course, tackling the problems with respect to personality and letting go of it. He developed a unique process for discovering 'chief feature' and also applied a method of 'humouring', which most resembles modern quantum psychology, as described by Stephan Wolinsky in his book Trances People Live. This put him half a century ahead of the psychology of his time. Therefore, it was inevitable that the experiments he did with students, which he called 'steps in the dark', were sometimes too hard on people and that he sometimes crossed the borders of reasonableness, so that people were shocked and left. In 1984, some of these went to the press, and a reaction was published.


As the original poster pointed out ? this goes far beyond simply administering a philosophical doctrine ? the leader of the SES (a man with no training in psychology) was using adult students as human guinea pigs in his amateur psychological experiments.

And a lifelong admirer and supporter admits he went too far. These experiments were used in creating the SES doctrine, which in turn has been adapted for use in its childrens schools.

It pays to be aware of where these ideas came from.

Its fairly irrelevant to what degree meditation & the pause are still present in the schools - its whether the SES philosphy is still being imparted and spread through the schools that matters. And as snowman points out - its so carefully constructed to be delivered bit by bit - thats going to be a difficult call to make, if your only experience is within the schools

parent
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Postby parent » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:28 pm

A minus house point can be administered for not pausing correctly. Open your eyes while you are pausing and....

6/7/8/9 year olds.......

The O
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Postby The O » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:31 pm

This is utterly absurd! You have taken this to the NEXT LEVEL! Right, lets get some things straight.
1. The junior schools do not meditate.
2. Meditation is completely optional.
3. Pausing is not compulsory either.
4. Philosophy is given the take it or leave it policy, in 5th Form, we took a vote to the headmaster to ask to do something more interesting in the philosophy sessions, his answer was of course, and we were allowed to discuss literature.
5. Learning about the arts is a vital part of an education, an education is not just books and exams. Florence was one of the best trips I've ever been on.

None of you seem to have come to terms with the fact that all of these kind of things that you say happened at St Vedast and St James happened at all of the other schools around the country. They were not living under the law that is currently opperating now, coporal punishment was legal! i admit that what was done may have been excessive, but it was the trend of the time, it was seen as how to look after children, how to toughen them up. I have heard of many worse things that happened to my dad and to my uncle and their friends in different schools at the same time. Why are you still doing this, what do you hope to achieve by belittling us? The ratio's about 100:1 at the moment! One quick last question, please answer. By this campaign do you feel that you are damaging the school's current state, i.e. the pupils currently attending, and if so, are you intentionally doing this?

Regards
P.S. I do not mean to be rude, I am just trying to get to the bottom of this.
Theo Gould

daska
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Postby daska » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:49 pm

The O wrote:3. Pausing is not compulsory either.
4. Philosophy is given the take it or leave it policy, in 5th Form, we took a vote to the headmaster to ask to do something more interesting in the philosophy sessions, his answer was of course, and we were allowed to discuss literature.


When exactly did they change these policies in the Junior schools?

The O wrote:None of you seem to have come to terms with the fact that all of these kind of things that you say happened at St Vedast and St James happened at all of the other schools around the country. They were not living under the law that is currently opperating now, coporal punishment was legal! i admit that what was done may have been excessive, but it was the trend of the time, it was seen as how to look after children, how to toughen them up. I have heard of many worse things that happened to my dad and to my uncle and their friends in different schools at the same time.


We don't 'say' they happened, they did happen. That's what the inquiry established. Try searching for 'vedast' on http://www.corpun.com/webschuk.htm Colin Farrell knows about corporal punishment, he wouldn't describe what happened at the schools in the way he does if he considered it the norm.


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