Our Campaign against urs, Parents THIS is what u want 2 hear

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
daska
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:29 pm
Location: UK

Postby daska » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:52 pm

WILDONE wrote:Zathura all schools have rules on hair do , how short the skirt is and what type of music should be performed at school concerts. This is part of good morale. That is what parents look for when sending their kids to a school. What values are taught. Academic Progress. This is what good parenting is about as well. All schools need to enforce an effective discipline in a school ie in this case verbal warnings, issue of red and yellow. If you the Head Master/Mistress of a school would you not enforce certain criteria becoming of your school? Suggestions can be made through the schools council and students can be heard. Changes can be brought about . And in many schools this proves quite effective. What is to say that this is not being done at St James.


The boys once voted to retain caning. Was that cos they thought it was a good idea? They thought they were being independent minded but didn't they do what the head wanted because it was so 'normal' to them.

Who's to say the girls wouldn't vote to retain the long skirts because of the same normalising effect?

Where are the girls anyway? If boys and girls are free to chat then why aren't we seeing any comments that we can identify as coming from pupils at the girls school as well as the boys? Come on lads, round up some female support for what you're saying...

WILDONE
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:47 pm

Postby WILDONE » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:56 pm

Daska
Live in the present

User avatar
Sam Hyde
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:33 pm
Location: St James boys school
Contact:

Postby Sam Hyde » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:58 pm

Wasted a load of time under Mr. Body?s unctuous (good word hey!) democratic ploy. We spent 1hr voting on how to vote the voted chairman! Omg.....well it?s just started. So I was thinking about trying to make the school greener?
What do you suggest, bearing in mind I am the eldest on the council and all the kids want is the typical: burgers for lunch, more break time, less Sanskrit.......blah blah blah. We can?t change the curriculum. But we can usefully debate such topics as complaint facilities, bullying policies and of course prefect/staff treatment. We have a member of staff taking minutes at all meetings and if we want a good future of acceptance from the staff, we must start softly softly, makes sence huh? Boddy does not sit in or chair the meetings now, I do. :p

Sam xox
thats old now, like me, only 4 weeks to go!!!!!
"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education"

Alban
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:23 am
Location: London

Postby Alban » Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:12 pm

Zathura wrote:...However when I see too much inverted snobbery and spin going in the other direction I get cross. If people are going to over exageratte their claims about the school/THE school I'll try and be subversive in a counter move....


Can you point out posts that you feel are exageration Zathura.

I have read virtually every post on this board and I haven't seen any exageration. I know some of it is hard to believe, but it did really happen - there is no need to exagerate.

Alban

Zathura
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:05 pm

Postby Zathura » Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:28 pm

I feel that the accumalative effect of a lot of isolated experiences creates an exageration overal. However I will make it plain I am in no real position to judge. I was not in the Senior school till 1985. I do find it hard to believe sure and also I suppose I don't want to believe it. On the other hand if it is true it really helps to get rid of the last vestiges of respect for St James as a totalitarian right movement. I think even the most developed of us still have this blueprint that we fight against. I wish i didn't have the blueprint and none of this fight was going on. Just cause I rejected most S.E.S doctrine apart from the central abstract belief in a God and faith in my own intuitions, at the age of 20 10 years ago it still doesn't mean that I haven't suffered a catostrophic 'getting over period' in the last decade. In short a lot of emotional pain trying to fight myself, get it out of my system. This is my fight. My pain. I never saw the abuse. I had a good form teacher and although I noticed from afar Lacy was weird it just coincided that in the first year we had him 1989 he changed into a smiling slightly psyco but funny and amiable and supportive teacher. Why this changed happened is unexplainable as it was genuine and his happiness and presentiment was emotionally engaging rather than forced. I can say this because I really warmed to him and would have loved to have done Physics with him in A level. My mates really liked him and found him amusing. Quite what changed him apart from a genuine epiphony beats me. I like the guy and have good memories of him and Debo and Russell. I suppose like these kids I might be living in denial except that I remember the older boys were a really rough lot and very violent towards the young kids.Maybe they were acting as they had example shown to them? Or perhaps they were an unusually f..ed up bunch. Rooting, verbal abuse etc. Real heavyweight bullying. Cutting peoples hair. Drawing all over them. Wrapping them up in parcel tape from head to toe and mainly just violent verbal abuse and intimidation. There were headlocks, punching, and most of all violent shouting and really bad name calling. I didn't want to go to school for quite a few terms when I was the most bullied.This was common amongst a lot of older kids and there were always the few nice ones. I remember the nice ones with great fondness Nick Horsecroft. PF was 'allright'. Thomas Hillman and Currey were funny. Conrad Dechant was great. There were a lot of cool guys and also gangs of arseholes. Cypren Edmunds class were a bunch of bullies. Sam Edmunds and a lot of his gang but mostly just him, was a serious arsehole. I was talking to an old schoolfriend a week ago and was suprised that he mentioned Sam as well. Some of these guys were way way worse than any caning. Big time.

nilsabm
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:31 pm

Postby nilsabm » Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:51 pm

I think Daska is living entirely in the present Wildone. Where are the girls opinions?

I am glad to see that so much has changed in the Boys school, particularly that the corporal punishment has stopped. I myself was beaten on the backside with the cane, a table tennis bat, a cricket bat, a 'Green Flash' Dunlop plimsoll (Size 9 considered best size by Mr Farndell), - nice to see they're back in the shops by the way - as well as being hit with an assortment of other implements, the ubiquitous ruler, blackboard rubber etc. Yes that was in the past and ,to be honest, I got over it the moment I left . In fact I made no submission to the enquiry about these matters.

What has concerned me recently, though, has been the mental abuse inflicted on the girls of my generation, their being made to feel subservient to men etc, that I have only come to fully realise in more recent years. In many ways I think it worse than the physical abuse we boys suffered - it cut deeper and lasted longer. The Laws of Manu, a central SES text, has terrible views on women; it denigrates them as whores and liars who need to be protected from themselves (See the end of Chapter 5 and the beginning of Chapter 9 in particular). This I fear has been overlooked in the Townend report, and having seen the present girls submissions on the thread 'Sex after Marriage', together with Zathura's posts on sexual discrimination, I am concerned it is still happening now.

So please, in the interests of the good name of your School, find out what the girls think and feel about the issues you have now, very wisely, decided to discuss and consider.

If you do wish to petition the heads of the schools and the governors about the concerns that you yourselves have raised, don't just pass it around the Boys school. Send it around the Girls' school too. Heck, petition the parents... if you posted on this site, you would probably find many of the people would support you here as well! Yes this would go a long way to helping the reconciliation process; yes it would help bring this matter to a close; and no, it wouldn't harm your schools. Removing the clandestine, cultic associations that pupils past and present feel uncomfortable with could only improve them.

The best to you all
Nils

WILDONE
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:47 pm

Postby WILDONE » Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:57 pm

Nisbalm
Yes will look in to this.
I hope this is not the case as will be utterly disgusted.
Thank you for the information you gave.

leon
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:13 pm

Postby leon » Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:30 pm

the violence you saw from the older kids was a result of exampls from the staff. For merely jogging his arm as they walked by Rusell punched a kid in the face knocking them out at Chepstow Villas in the changing room. Debenham would give a severe beating (severe, bruising for 10 days- 2 weeks) for a student found playing a computer game after school on the way home after school. This kind of behaviour sets an unwritten code.

I remember once mucking around in waterperry with a few kids, we were chucking acorns at each other or something when a guy from an SES group I was an unfortunate member of bowled up and started to ingratiate. We were a bit lippy, perhaps slightly rude, (he had that insufferable smug ses DIVA thing going on, he asked me who I was, I replied why do you want to know, whats it to you, etc.. no swearing cursing or anything like that just mild pubescent sarcasm. On monday I am called to ND and given a really heavy caning. What really pissed me off then was the injustice of it, i couldn't figure waht I was being punished for, throwing acorns, or what? it made no sense. And it only made me want to fu*k the guy up even more, any way I could.

Re prefects, don't be too hard, and try and understand (easier said I know) Being an Edmunds I doubt Sam was caned that much if at all but in the 70's there was a definite culture of violence at St James that was really a form of bullying, i.e. strong staff attack weaker defenseless children (this was not controlled regulated corporal punishment), that was naturally copied by certain prefects and I am ashamed to say by myself on occasion. You have to remember the was a difference between corporal punishment that was practiced in schools at the time and the kind of thing that went on at St James. I doubt if the governors appreciate it. I was slippered by R Edmunds for mucking around while staying at his house, fair cop we were guilty of rowdy behavior, his gaff his rules. But it was light years away from the beatings that happened at St James. I remember thinking is that it? Caning that caused bleeding is unbelievably painful.You have to be there!

parent
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:23 am

Postby parent » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:14 pm

This happy school is not allowed corporal punishment by law. Thank god.

Do children therefore feel intimidated through other means as a replacement? Is there psychological discipline which is not so transparent to outsiders and onlookers?

So why did my child - a happy, bubbly and confident child when placed into the school - come out of it a wreck.? I asked the question much later...

.Parent - "it appeared to me that you were so happy everytime I collected you from school. Why did you not say anything?

Child - "I was so happy to see you and could not wait to get out of there"

Parent - "Why did you not say anything?"

Child - "I thought THIS is what school life is" and resigned myself to the fact.

Zathura
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:05 pm

Postby Zathura » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:44 pm

I've gotta put my hands up Leon and say well I don't know......I myself was caned three times but two of the times were cool and only three wacks...when you mention the two incidents is this two out of many for you or is it 'the two'
If it is 'the two' then I can't go with systematic abuse but I can go with the last deterant being given for the smallest reason which is well bad. But for you personally was it only two beatings

That said I've just been on the Anti SES site and it makes pretty hard reading.

I can't really be a judge.

I have an agenda that is as fervent as some of the 'militants'
I want to knock out sexism and 20th century phobia at St James. To my view especially seeing as I wasn't mistreated in the ways described the subjects that interest me in the long term are the ones to focus on. The ones that really matter. Sexism is a big deal for boys and girls. Teaching boys to respect women as goddesses isn't straight ahead respect at all. It's patronising and a disguise for the male god of reason to through convention control the goddess so that she is always a goddess (suppliant sweet goddess) rather than a person or a will or an ego. The ideal is a selfless goddess who serves the absolute, her husband and the school. This is the extreme S.E.S woman. And she has been known to exist in the bodies of real people.

This is my great theme and gripe and I'm afraid to say it is an equal issue to the beatings. I wasn't mistreated so I'm interested in the woman thing.

parent
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:23 am

Postby parent » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:00 pm

[quote="Sam Hyde"]Wasted a load of time under Mr. Body?s unctuous (good word hey!) democratic ploy. We spent 1hr voting on how to vote the voted chairman! Omg.....well it?s just started. So I was thinking about trying to make the school greener?
What do you suggest, bearing in mind I am the eldest on the council and all the kids want is the typical: burgers for lunch, more break time, less Sanskrit.......blah blah blah. We can?t change the curriculum. But we can usefully debate such topics as complaint facilities, bullying policies and of course prefect/staff treatment. We have a member of staff taking minutes at all meetings and if we want a good future of acceptance from the staff, we must start softly softly, makes sence huh? Boddy does not sit in or chair the meetings now, I do. :p



What a wonderfully democratic place your school sounds like. I am so suspicious of all the acts.

Burgers for lunch? - Which school did my child go to then until very recently. My child was fed cheese, salad and all the veggie delights for lunch. My child was not allowed to start eating untli the teacher finally arrived and was served FIRST and my child was not allowed to speak during lunch.

Sorry, I must have got the wrong school!

daska
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:29 pm
Location: UK

Postby daska » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:15 pm

Laws of Manu chapter 5 selection of verses..
147 - A girl, a young woman, or even an old woman should not do anything independently, even in (her own) house.
148 - In childhood a woman should be under her father's control, in youth under her husband's, and when her husband is dead, under her sons'. She should not have independence.
151 - When her father, or her brother with her father's permission, gives her to someone, she should obey that man while he is alive and not violate her vow to him when he is dead.
154 - A virtuous wife should constantly serve her husband like a god, even if he behaves badly, freely indulges his lust, and is devoid of any good qualities
155 - ... it is because a wife obeys her husband that she is exalted in heaven
157 - When her husband is dead she may fast as much as she likes, (living) on auspicious flowers, roots, and fruits, but she should not even mention the name of another man
158 - She should be long-suffering until death, self restrained, and chaste, striving (to fulfil) the unsurpassed duty of women who have one husband.
169 - He... [referring to man whose wife has predeceased him] should take a wife and live in his house...for the second part of his life

Alban
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:23 am
Location: London

Postby Alban » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:55 pm

All familiar (and extremely dangerous).

At what age were the girls "introduced" to Manu daska?

Lets hope (really, really hope) that they aren't still teaching that stuff now, because if so, it completely blows out of the water any pretence that the school has changed one iota!. Bring on the current girls, let's hear it - what are they being taught about the roles of women these days?

Alban

whitedevil
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:22 pm

Postby whitedevil » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:39 am

Parent,

Sam was saying that Burgers are what they want, not what they get. I always arrived after the teacher to lunch. I always talked my head off as did everyone else. And as a matter of fact the idea is "serve the person to your left" not "let's all serve our SES superior" that way everyone is served unselfishly at once. Sound to me like you are talking about a different school eh?
freedom wears your scars of desire

leon
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:13 pm

Postby leon » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:41 am

Zathura wrote:I've gotta put my hands up Leon and say well I don't know......I myself was caned three times but two of the times were cool and only three wacks...when you mention the two incidents is this two out of many for you or is it 'the two'


of many, on average about 3 or 4 times a term. this was over 7 years. I think I was about 5 when I was first "beaten". How anyone can cane a five year old is beyond me. In between there was a constant stream of other stuff from the more nutty teachers. Being caned before the old bruises had healed was a pretty harsh experience, which happened a few times. (It did make me pretty tough).

Check the incomplete punishment book (why did he start in 1980 and not from 74?), many kids are caned each month. There are some odd trends in that book, how come it's 77 total in St James in 1980 (ok minus the two entire class beatings thats an aberation) , leaping to 145 in 1981 and then gradually dropping back down to 70 again in 1984? Did everyone suddenly get twice as bad in 1981? Or was Debenham frustrated about something in may and june of that year?


Return to “St James and St Vedast”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest