Our Campaign against urs, Parents THIS is what u want 2 hear

[whitedevil]

Daska,

That's all very well. But I know next to nothing about the workings of the SES. As a result all I can neither praise it nor dismiss it. All I can say is that I know it exists and is connected to St James. And that it does not enforce itself upon me. The problem is I just don't know who's account of the SES to trust. I shall remain sceptical.

[sugarloaf]

I agree with you. It's just in my experience, the SES has never involved itself in my education.

Well not unless you call running your school, and appointing your headteacher no involvement

I find the problem is that because the SES is so clandestine. The only real piece of information i have is the abuse. It would be interesting if they made everything public. Every transaction etc. Then we could come to a conclusion about what is to be done. Maybe that's what we should petition for....utter transparency

We really dont seem to be very far apart. Perhaps if we both did petition the school, then there would be no reason for former pupils to continue to say how bad it was, and for you to mistakenly feel the current school pupils are being attacked.

Someones already written the letter - just click the link: openletter@tiscali.co.uk

BTW as far as Im aware the Aus SES has always been the SOP - no change there.

[james]

Ok my bad!
However I still belive that it would be a good move for the UK schools to follow suit and drop this missleading name. In all my contact with the SES I have never been talked too about or discussed economics!

[sugarloaf]

I believe they find it quite useful as a number of St J parents have mistaken the 'School of Economic Science' (religious cult with mysogenistic tendencies and a history of abuse) for the 'London school of Economics' (well regarded premier academic institution).

They have changed their name - from the SES to the SoES, but this is anly a temporary identity change on the iirep website that links the SES to abuse of children. They must have a proffessional PR man on the job somewhere behind the scenes

[daska]

Yes and No.

The SES still has a School of Economic Science which was founded by Leon MacLaren's father. Some current parents are members. (I am not and never have been) The Philosophy school was an off-shoot started by 'the' Mr MacLaren responsible for the day schools. There's a lot more info on the board about this and the various people involved if you search for it.

[Goblinboy]

The SES in the southern Hemisphere has changes its name to SOP (school of philosophy) I hope this is its first step in coming out of it shell of secrecy.

Wish it was becoming more transparent, James. The SES has always used a variety of names. The SOP in was established Sydney by Michael Mavro at Leon MacLaren's request. It then branched out to Melbourne and other major cities. It is also known in other countries as the "School of Practical Philosophy".

For some accounts of the bizarre early days of the Sydney SOP, see http://www.whyaretheydead.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=162&start=15

When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro, as Hunter Thompson wrote.

[whitedevil]

Sugarloaf,


what i meant by "hasn't interfered with my education" is SES doctrine has never affected what I have learnt or how I have learnt it. (except sanskrit admittedly). perhaps it affects who teaches but that is not what I was refering to.

[james]

Please don't bring StJ parents into this little sub debate, you may be right that parents wouldn't send there parents if they realised that it was SES and not LSoE. The point is StJ should be more open about the link and the SES should be more open about what it actualy teaches. Thereby dropping one of the things that quailfies it as a cult! (the secrecy)
StJ has nothing to be afraid of, I believe parents would still send pupils, because the good things the school offers far outweigh the minor (and still receding) control the SES has over the school.

[Alban]

Daska,

That's all very well. But I know next to nothing about the workings of the SES. As a result all I can neither praise it nor dismiss it. All I can say is that I know it exists and is connected to St James. And that it does not enforce itself upon me. The problem is I just don't know who's account of the SES to trust. I shall remain sceptical.

This is indeed a problem, and it was only when I had come into conflict with the world on very fundamental levels that I started to question my beliefs and where they came from.

Maybe you could get a head start by asking yourself what exactly you believe in and how you came to those beliefs. Then re-assess them from the position of what you know now as opposed to what you knew while you were soaking them up.

I can only speak personally here, but it was quite a relief to me when I first proved to myself that I had been basing my early life on fundamentally flawed principles. I felt like I had actually thought something out for myself for the first time rather than following a formula given to me by someone else - quite liberating.

Alban

[daska]

Whitedevil - you could always go along and find out. They'll even refund you if you don't stick the first term. But remember to do it on a fact finding basis and judge the teaching for yourself. Be a devil, ask them about the laws of manu and when they've told you how fantastic they are ask whether they'll arrange a baby bride for you. Best look it up first, makes interesting reading. chapter 9 para 94: A thirty-year-old man should marry a twelve-year-old girl who charms his heart, and a man of twenty-four an eight-year-old girl; and if duty is threatened, (he should marry) in haste.

[whitedevil]

Daska i will google the laws of manu and see what I find. Im gonna keep an open mind on this if it kills me

[james]

Daska I agree the teaching is flawed. Only slightly though. (Joke ok!) Luckily they don't expose any pupils in the school to this teaching. It is entirely voluntary for the pupil to join the SES. In my year group we had bout 10 out of 35 or so pupils join. Some of those have now left. There is no obligation to join and nothing saying you can't leave.

[daska]

Daska,

That's all very well. But I know next to nothing about the workings of the SES. As a result all I can neither praise it nor dismiss it. All I can say is that I know it exists and is connected to St James. And that it does not enforce itself upon me. The problem is I just don't know who's account of the SES to trust. I shall remain sceptical.

Good, please do be sceptical, that's exactly what we old gits want to hear from the current pupils. Hooray for independence of mind.

Problem is that the whole point about indoctrination is that the indoctrinated don't realise that they are...

...so without hearing more of your beliefs/arguments we have no way of telling whether you are truly sceptical.

How about a controversial subject for you to a debate such as: I believe it is to the benefit of society that the new civil partnership gives homosexuals more rights than heterosexuals? Can you argue both sides effectively? This is an area where I would expect an SES parented/schooled person of tender years to have quite fixed fundamentalist opinions.

[Sam Hyde]

Looking forward to replying to your post Daska, however must say hello to mum as she has returned from CULT meetings hehehehehe.
Sam xox

[james]

We had that very debate in a "philosophy" lesson one time. I can't remember the outcome (equal rights I believe) but I for one don't see why they shouldn't be give equal rights.
Explain indoctrinated please Daska. Do you mean that the "indoctrinated" pupils feel they must join the SES when the opportunity is presented?

ps. Sam maaaaaan stop gunning!