EXPERIENCES AT ST. VEDAST (now St. James) AND THE S.E.S

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
Tom Grubb
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: London

Re: Nicholas Debenham

Postby Tom Grubb » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:36 pm

Guest wrote:I still find it extraordinary that there are educated humane people that still think Nicholas Debenam should be cannonised.

Is beating a 4 year old - humane? Is asking a 4year old child which cane he would like to be beaten with christian?. Is making a child wait hours or even days for a decision on whether he is going to be beaten a loving act. The man had no compassion, no warmth. He literally beat children till they bled.

I hear that N Debenham is hurt that people on this board are challenging his life work. I can guarantee that his hurt does not come close to the pain he caused people.

Katharine - no doubt you have contact with this man .. perhaps you can let him know that every day he maintains his silence he is damaging St James and all the children who study there.

I personally will not stop until he makes amends.

Well said, Guest! Please be assured that there are many people who feel the same as you.

Tom

Disgusted

Postby Disgusted » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:21 pm

Katharine: you sicken me. And after all your pretence that you care about the abuse. Pathetic.

Misty

Postby Misty » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:46 pm

Disgusted wrote:Katharine: you sicken me. And after all your pretence that you care about the abuse. Pathetic.




The spectrum is a magazine which tries to sell the school off! ITs a magazine which has the positive sides and views to the year.

She talks about a man who has evidently touched people's heart with his work in life, evidently not with people on here!

I couldnt belive that Churchill was voted the Greatest Briton a few years back! He was terribly racist and held the most gruesome views towards Ghandi. Yet, I relaised that he had a great side of him, and that is what is important.

Mrs Watson, has laid out her opinions and her views on the great side of Mr Debenham, which many people share with her. Yet it doesn't mean she doesnt care about the abuse that many of you had to endure.

OH phu-lease, Disgusted!

Daffy
Moderator
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:32 am

Postby Daffy » Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:05 am

Misty wrote:Mrs Watson, has laid out her opinions and her views on the great side of Mr Debenham, which many people share with her. Yet it doesn't mean she doesnt care about the abuse that many of you had to endure.

What kind of moral gymnastics is this?

This is like saying you think Adolf Hitler was a great man even though you don't condone the holocaust.

Nicholas Debenham was the orchestrator of a vicious regime which continued to inflict daily cruelties until the law prohibited him. The fact that so many people who were 'educated' under him despise him so passionately should tell you something.

Katherine Watson said she "from the beginning unfailingly supported those who have suffered abuse" but is now elevating the chief abuser almost to the level of sainthood.

You simply cannot separate Debenham from the abuse. He perpetrated, instigated and presided over the abuse for more than two decades. To call him a "humane and civilised human being" is an insult to hundreds of former pupils who suffered at his hands.

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:11 pm

It seems to have been confirmed by David Boddy that there will be an inquiry.

Hope that all concerned can put this to bed and move on with thier lives.

Scotsman
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:42 pm

Postby Scotsman » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:50 pm

Anonymous wrote:It seems to have been confirmed by David Boddy that there will be an inquiry.

Hope that all concerned can put this to bed and move on with thier lives.


Yes. A letter has been sent to parents explaining about the enquiry and saying that results should be available around Easter.

And I would echo the advice above for people to get on with their lives. What happened in the past needs to be addressed, but it needn't dominate one's life today nor should it be allowed to.

I think the posts above unfairly castigate Katherine Watson for what she has written in Spectrum. She has written about the man that she knew. That was her perception and experience of him. It was mine too.

It now comes to light that there was a side to him that we didn't know. The side described by one of his former pupils above. I am as shocked as anyone else must be.

Scotsman

sparkss

To Scotsman

Postby sparkss » Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:54 am

Dear Scotsman,

Please could you email me privately (you would need to register as a user)

Thanks

Scotsman wrote:
Yes. A letter has been sent to parents explaining about the enquiry and saying that results should be available around Easter.


Can you say more?

Scotsman wrote:I think the posts above unfairly castigate Katherine Watson for what she has written in Spectrum. She has written about the man that she knew. That was her perception and experience of him. It was mine too.

Scotsman


I understand your comment but, as I said in my earlier post, I had a very different experience of the man. I pointed this out to Katharine in the context of the contradiction between her sympathetic stance / acknowledgment of past pupils experineces and her glowing eulogy.

sparks
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:17 am

Re: To Scotsman

Postby sparks » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:03 am

sparkss wrote:Dear Scotsman,

Please could you email me privately (you would need to register as a user)




SORRY wasnt logged in! You should be able to email me now should you wish to.

thanks

wilfred
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:42 pm

Concerned parent re Letter from headmaster

Postby wilfred » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

I am a current concerned parent.

I recieved a letter today outlining the issues and announcing an enquiry.

The users of this site have obviously put a huge amount of effort and perserverance to bring about this enquiry. Thank you. I hope that the outcome will benefit the school and its current and future students.

Reading all the correspondence here and sites relating to the SES leaves me with many questions. Perhaps some of you or even current teaching and administrative staff could help answer them.

I would also welcome thoughts from other current parents who have found their way to this site

1.What are the current and historic links of staff to the SES

2.Which govenors are linked to the SES

3.As the philosophy of the SES is integral to some of the teachings of the school why this link with the SES is this not made clearer in the school prospectus and web site.

4.Have there been similar issues at other SES schools

5.How often do SES "staff" visit St James?

6.Are SES staff actively trying to recruit from St James?

7.What percentage of St James 6th form are recruited by SES each year

8.What are the teachings of the school towards the status and treatment of women. What are the SES's views towards women

9. What is the name of the QC who will hold the enquiry

10. What is the remit, breadth and authority of the enquiry

11. Will the enquiry, for example examine whether the teachings and philosophy of the SES were partially responsible for the abuse, or wether it was down to the decisions of certain individuals?

12. Why is the enquiry limited to certain dates

13. There have been a number of students leaving the school early, in possibly larger numbers than one would expect from a small school. Are these linked in any way

14. How is individualisim treated by the school and how is it viewed by the SES

thanks Wilfred
Last edited by wilfred on Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Parent

Postby Parent » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:25 pm

Dear Wilfred,

I am a parent too and I share your concerns very deeply. I want all the questions raised by you answered in great detail.

Are you a parent at Junior school or senior school? i will understand if you cannot disclose. But if you can, lets get in touch!

wilfred
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:42 pm

Postby wilfred » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:48 pm

Hi parent..My son is in Senior school, but I imagine that the paents of Junior boys and the girls school will all share concerns.

Were you aware of the links with the SES before you enrolled your child?.
I was not, but in retrospect I imagine that the issues are no different than, for example, one would face enrolling ones child into a school run by any religion or discipline.

The one difference is that, for instance, a Jesuit school, would openly claim to be just that. This was enrollment by stealth

Parent

Postby Parent » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:02 pm

Thank you Wilfred.

I am a junior school parent and now very deeply concerned. I had heard of the SES and brushed it off as some "far away organisation". My fault entirely for lack of research.

What I did not know though is that this SES (whoever they are) actually control the framework of the school.

I am against "mind control". I am against cultism - in any form or shape. I want answers too. I have been horrified by what I read on these posts. I do not wish to be alarmist but it is all too sudden.

Sandra

Postby Sandra » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:31 pm

GO PARENT GO!

Researcher

Re: Concerned parent re Letter from headmaster

Postby Researcher » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:35 pm

[quote="wilfred"][b]I am a current concerned parent. [/b]

I recieved a letter today outlining the issues and announcing an enquiry.

The users of this site have obviously put a huge amount of effort and perserverance to bring about this enquiry. Thank you. I hope that the outcome will benefit the school and its current and future students.

Reading all the correspondence here and sites relating to the SES leaves me with many questions. Perhaps some of you or even current teaching and administrative staff could help answer them.

I would also welcome thoughts from other current parents who have found their way to this site

1.What are the current and historic links of staff to the SES

Historically - All staff were members of the SES. Currently, 9 out of 10

2.Which govenors are linked to the SES

All are past or current members of the SES

3.As the philosophy of the SES is integral to some of the teachings of the school why this link with the SES is this not made clearer in the school prospectus and web site.

Not sure!

4.Have there been similar issues at other SES schools

5.How often do SES "staff" visit St James?

They are always there in different guises. Either as fundraisers or as governors.

6.Are SES staff actively trying to recruit from St James?

Not sure.

7.What percentage of St James 6th form are recruited by SES each year

Not sure.

8.What are the teachings of the school towards the status and treatment of women. What are the SES's views towards women

Pls. read earlier posts from former students.

9. What is the name of the QC who will hold the enquiry

Not sure.

10. What is the remit, breadth and authority of the enquiry

Not sure.

11. Will the enquiry, for example examine whether the teachings and philosophy of the SES were partially responsible for the abuse, or wether it was down to the decisions of certain individuals?

Not sure.

12. Why is the enquiry limited to certain dates

Not sure.

13. There have been a number of students leaving the school early, in possibly larger numbers than one would expect from a small school. Are these linked in any way

Unclear.

14. How is individualisim treated by the school and how is it viewed by the SES

Unclear. Pls. refer to posts by former students on "suppression of individualism"

thanks Wilfred[/quote]

"without prejudice"

My answers to your questions are "without prejudice" and only based on my own individual findings and research.

Witness
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:55 pm

SES Inquiry

Postby Witness » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:58 pm

Dear All,

I stumbled across this message board this morning and cannot tell you how pleased I am to have done so. Congratulations to all of you who have obviously survived terrible experiences at St James and St Vedasts and yet still have the strength of character to see that justice will be done.

The metaphor of Hitler and the Nazi party has already been used on this board to describe the crimes of SES, its leadership and its schools.

I have met a few brilliant, free-thinking and humanistic people from SES. Let us say, to return to the metaphor already used, that they are the Oscar Schindlers, or Hitler?s would-be assassins. But for every Schindler, there were thousands of brainwashed Nazi Party members. The word needs to be spread about what SES really is, how dangerous it is in the wrong hands, and how much suffering it continues to cause.

I want to bring a new element to this discussion by extending the metaphor. If St James and St Vedasts are the Hitler Youth of SES, then the broader SES itself (the Nazi Party) must be brought to book, not just the schools.

Beyond the child abuse at the schools, this forum must (with equal energy) face the crimes of the broader SES itself.

SES is the first cause of the abuse, we must not only single out individual abusers. Because, metaphorically, that would be a Nuremberg Trail of Nazi war criminals which left out a denunciation of the Nazi Party and Mein Kampf.

The danger is that Debenam and the likes of him become SES's scapegoats, and the organization will live on as a leaner, more PR-savvy variant without ever really giving the national apology and acceptence of wrongdoing that is needed.

The child abuse at the schools is surely the most foul crime that SES is guilty of. It is certainly the crime with the most evidence.

But justice does not stop there. Membership of SES is vastly bigger than St James. So there must be hundreds of lives that have been destroyed by SES without the St James or St Vedasts experience.

I believe that the pressures SES imposes on lives and families is responsible for mental breakdowns, suicides, divorces, juvenile drug abuse and more.

SES's link to these tragedies can be hidden because (1) they are the opposite of what the SES proports to stand for and (2) these tragedies take place in homes and not in public institutions such as schools and (3) SES recruits by stealth, calling itself ?The School of Philosphy? or ?Art in Action? or ?St. James? and one can walk in and out without noticing anything sinister at all. It is only after time, and disaster, that you know what has hit you.

In spite of convenient clouds of smoke hiding its true nature, SES will not get away with it for ever.

Of course, I form my perspective from personal experience. Personally I never went to either St James or St Vedasts, but I had many friends who did, and my parents were in SES. I attended SES "Philosophy" classes. As a child I was psychologically abused by the SES teaching and adults who adhered to it. The teaching brought a cruel and inhumane streak out in the adults around me. My abuser felt empowered and sanctioned by SES.

I was horrified and terrified as I witnessed the brainwashing in my family when I was a teenager. Their once fun-loving and warm identities have been replaced by obsessive, patronising, anti-social and narrow-minded clones. For a while, like many with the St James and St Vedasts experience, it was so awful that it sent me off the rails for a patch.

There's nothing special about my case. I believe I am just one very average example of hundreds, if not thousands of children of SES parents who did not go to St James and St Vedasts but must also want justice to be done.

I was never physically abused as many of you on this message board have been, but the SES organisation took my childhood and my family away from me. When I was a defenceless child, it caused me deep emotional pain.

Like the victims of St Vedasts here, I have now grown up into a free adult who is equipped to stand up to authority. I want to look the culprits in the eyes on an equal level.

If they are deluded into thinking that they are on the right path, I want to give them an education. I want them to know what their organization has done to families and to children. I want SES to stop meddling in families, telling people who they should love and how they should live.

The root of SES injustice is the lie that they tell: to themselves, to newcomers. SES does not teach philosophy at all. Philosophy is about questions. But SES have all the answers. There is therefore a huge insulting lie on every "Philosophy" poster one sees on the London Underground.

That first big lie, that first big delusion, opens up all the rest of the lies and malpractices. It is precisely how Hitler caught peoples' minds: with an enourmous lie. So if you're a good person or a bad person and you're in SES it doesnt really make any difference: you are playing with your own head and everybody else's.

SES is a group of people often including the power-hungry who before membership felt weak and powerless. It warps peoples minds, lives off the weak, the damaged and the friendless, and seems to object to the strong minds that stand up to them. There are well-meaning individuals in the group. But many sinister organisations began with good intentions. I learnt that at school, and it wasn?t at St James.

If anyone has any bright ideas how we go about extending the Inquiry to the entire SES, please reply to me here.

Good luck to you all.
Last edited by Witness on Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.


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