EXPERIENCES AT ST. VEDAST (now St. James) AND THE S.E.S

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
Scotsman
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:42 pm

Postby Scotsman » Sat Nov 20, 2004 10:26 pm

Rather than be "Guest with some temerity" , I shall sign my name "Scotsman"
If I correctly understand the reason you made this comparison, you feel that the passage of time might allow a new perspective from those who experienced abuse at St James, just as it allowed you to do from your own school experiences?


That is my hope, Yes.

And there are good people in today's St James, as the "Newish Teacher" above explains. It is a far cry from what it used to be, of that I am sure.

Do you think that the examples of corporal punishment are comparative between the schools?


No.

What really shocked me about the accounts on this board was how young the children concerned were at the time, remembering my own sons at that age.

And secondly, how my wife and I believed so implicitly that our sons would be in the best care possible at St James. Our sons did not suffer any abuse that I can ascertain, but I do know the people named in these posts.

It takes courage to meet up with former students who have stories to tell like those on these pages, but it is the only way forward in my view, and an example has already been set.

Is the experience of St James repeated across the schooling system with past students strongly affected by past events, or is St James/Vedast a unique occurence?


Don't know.

Am very heartened to see Will Rasmussen's post above. For the record, my younger son felt that he had a friend in Will Rasmussen. That he was someone he could talk to and receive help and encouragement from.

I don't usually recommend books for people to read. It's not my business what people choose to read. But today is going to be an exception.

There is a book called "The Railway Man" by Eric Lomax. It would strike a deep chord with everyone who has posted on this board, were they to read it.

Included in that are Mr and Mrs Debenham, and Mr David Boddy, and all the teachers and ex-teachers named on this board. It may be a forlorn hope, but nevertheless I hope thy will read it, for it carries a vital message for them too.

Scotsman

Guest

Re: For the record

Postby Guest » Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:27 pm

nonanon wrote:
Guest wrote:There are postings by anon. These postings represent the views of no one but himself. Whoever is reading this, please note that when this person uses 'we' he is referring only to himself - not the views of anyone else.


Ridiculous! How do you know they are not the views of anyone else? I know many former pupils who agree! Justbecause you disagree that doesn't represent everyone in the world!


In that case nonanon, let them speak for themselves, and you speak for yourself, and stop trying to speak for others all the time. If these others you claim to speak for agree with you, they are as free as anyone else to post here. That's why this forum is here.

Tom Grubb
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Postby Tom Grubb » Sun Nov 21, 2004 8:03 pm

Will Rasmussen wrote:Last night I met with some former students of St Vedast and St James. I admired the courage they showed in coming along at all, for in the course of the evening they described the intense and long lasting anguish that they had experienced there. This gave me the opportunity to apologise wholeheartedly for the contribution I had made to their suffering, and to try to explain how this was the last thing in the world I had intended. They asked me not to give their names, and I will, of course, respect this; however, I did want to let others know of this meeting and I wish to extend to all the students of St Vedast and St James who experienced trauma or distress in any way the same fulsome apology for any part I played in this.

Wishing you all the best,

Will

Just to clarify things: Will Rasmussen met with two former students on Thursday night. I was one of them and am quite happy to be named! Although I had disagreements with Will over certain issues I am very grateful to him for meeting us, for his frankness and for the fascinating insights he provided into the 'philosophy' of the SES and the behaviour of some St James and St Vedast teachers. I felt his apology was sincere and moving.

Tom

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:08 pm

the fascinating insights he provided into the 'philosophy' of the SES and the behaviour of some St James and St Vedast teachers


Are you in a position to share these insights Tom?

David.

Postby David. » Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:32 pm

I am a former St James pupil, and haven?t contributed to this forum yet. I only recently became aware of it, and reading the posts left me with a dull, sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, which I remember as a regular feature of my 10 years there. In my experience St James was a cold loveless place, where pain, and fear of pain were used as an instrument to force children to conform to the SES?s prescription of what a schoolchild should be.

Although I witnessed some, I managed to escape most of the random acts of violence that people have described in their posts, perhaps because I was fairly tall and physically strong for my age. What I think was much worse, and affected me most though, was the institutionalized bullying of some children by teachers, and I was one of them. This came right from the top. Children who did not conform to the SES ideal were picked out, and labelled by the headmaster. This included the physically weak, anyone who questioned the school doctrine, showed signs of developing a critical independent mind, and often those with learning difficulties. In my case I essentially had a good character, but had a bad attitude, which had to be removed by strict disciplining at every opportunity.

As my form teacher, Will Rasmussen was for many years an enthusiastic and dedicated enforcer of this regime, and often sent me to be beaten by the headmaster for any minor instance where he thought I had lived up to this description. In this respect for me he played a full part in creating the atmosphere of fear that was the overriding feature of many children?s lives at the schools.

In my memory he arrived at the school a light-hearted, happy and engaging teacher, and was almost instantly respected by his pupils, but within a very short period of time he became colder, authoritarian and to me had the appearance of a man carrying a heavy burden.

In all my time at school though, I don?t remember Will ever hitting or using physical force on any pupil. He was also an intelligent man, obviously loved his subject, and by all accounts was a good teacher (just a shame I had no interest in ancient languages!).
Unlike most teachers, he also on occasions showed signs of warmth and some understanding.

I was recently offered the chance to meet Will, and thought the opportunity was too good to turn down. We met last week and had an enjoyable, and open discussion. I was surprised to find that, although after 20 years I?ve discovered I still have a deep anger about my treatment as a child, none of it was directed at Will. I can?t explain this, because it should be. Perhaps it could be that even at that young age I thought he was basically a decent human being, but in my view became corrupted by the SES regime.

What struck me when we talked was that he seemed quite surprised at the effects of his actions, as if he had never truly considered them. Although he recognised the kind of instances I described to him, it seems he had never seen them that way at the time. I think Barrington Barber and David Hipshons posts describe something similar.

I had not met Will with the intention to make specific accusations, or ask for any apology, so I was surprised when towards the end he apologised unconditionally to me for his actions. I wasn?t expecting it, and I had to look him in the eye and asked if he meant it, and could see that he did. I accepted his apology, and as far as I?m concerned he?s completely forgiven.

I was also surprised he hadn?t read Barbers and Hipshons apologies, and I asked him to read the posts on this site, as I think these apologies mean a lot to a lot people who suffered at St James/Vedast. It was then that he voluntarily offered to post on the site himself.

I think it takes great courage to apologize in public, and Wills instinctive reaction confirms my first impressions of him, all those years ago. I hope he will continue to read the accounts here, and reflect further on his involvement. I also genuinely wish him happiness and success in his new career and life outside the SES.

David

PS. Nicholas, if you feel you would like to contribute, away from this site, do feel free to contact me privately.

Guest

Postby Guest » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:02 am

David,

I've been following developments on this forum from the sidelines for the last couple of months, and you are the first classmate of mine to post here. I remember you well and I can certainly vouch for everything you say about your supposed 'bad attitude' and the school's disciplinarian way of dealing with it.

I'd rather remain on the sidelines for the moment, but I'd love to catch up privately.

Guest

Postby Guest » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:35 pm

"Anyone who is planning direct action because their life has been ruined should first come and see the school and meet those whose education and livelihood they are about to disrupt themselves."

Some of the people whose livelihood your refer to are the teachers from the bad old days like Lacey who many of the complaints are against.

You cannot disassociate the current school from the abuse of the past while those teachers teach there.

Tom Grubb
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Location: London

Postby Tom Grubb » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:43 pm

a different guest wrote:
the fascinating insights he provided into the 'philosophy' of the SES and the behaviour of some St James and St Vedast teachers


Are you in a position to share these insights Tom?

Er, I'd rather not go into detail about that at the moment for reasons of confidentiality. Sorry if that sounds evasive. I think it would be much better if Will explained his position personally. I very much hope he will do so.

Tom

exsjpupil

Will Wrasmussen

Postby exsjpupil » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:47 pm

Will,

I wasn't in your class at school but you taught me for sometime. I don't think you ever treated me badly there, but thankyou for posting an apology. You were definately one of the very few half decent teachers there. Just a shame none of the rest seem to have anything to say for themselves.

Daffy
Moderator
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Re: Will Wrasmussen

Postby Daffy » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:59 pm

exsjpupil wrote:Just a shame none of the rest seem to have anything to say for themselves.


I'm not sure if you meant this literally, but have you seen the posts from Barrington Barber and David Hipshon a few pages back?

exsjpupil

apologies

Postby exsjpupil » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:00 am

I'm not sure if you meant this literally, but have you seen the posts from Barrington Barber and David Hipshon a few pages back?

Yes, sorry - i didnt mean that literally. Have seen BB and DHs apologies, and and as far as I'm concerned that excludes them from anything to come. possibly why i'd temporarily forgotten about them.

concerned parent

Postby concerned parent » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:39 pm

When is the inquiry set for and will parents be informed of the findings?

Sarah

Postby Sarah » Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:58 am

concerned parent wrote:When is the inquiry set for and will parents be informed of the findings?


There is no date set for the inquiry yet, and yes, in my opinion one of the conditions should be that current parents are informed of the findings.

david_

inquiry

Postby david_ » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:22 pm

I'd like to add that the inquiry would have little meaning if it simply addressed allegations about the past, and its investigations and findings were private. Surely, if we're all going to move forward from this, the important questions it ultimately needs to answer are: If the abuse happened, when did it stop? And does the same school now provide a safe environment for educating children? Those are not questions that can be asked, or answered privately, as they are relevant to parents of the current generation of children at the schools.

ANOTHER Concerned Parent

Postby ANOTHER Concerned Parent » Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:44 am

Greetings,

Sorry that I do not wish to use my real name here but trust you shall understand.

I am very concerned, reading this board, that David Lacey is in nearly daily contact with my son.

Should I be concerned?

Many thanks.


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