Everywhere we seek the truth. This forum, and the recent posts around the 'truth' of what happened at the SES affiliated schools, show that we all seek the truth for ourselves. Yet we are surrounded by deception and perception of others at every turn. Is it possible that we only seek the truth for ourselves and the organisation we support or represent, and similarly seek illusion for those who threaten our position of power? Is it possible there are multiple truths, dictated by the different viewpoints?
The inguiry is certain to become many things, but we can be sure that a concensus truth will not be one of them. The issues raised by past students of the schools are not going to reach closure because some absolute truth is driving it out. It has been brought about by pressure and publicity, an ability to control events that has not been before. Our seeking is for control, not truth, a need to control our own destiny. The truth is then made to fit the outcome. Who knows, the school authorities have held the moral highground under the banner of truth for so long. If control is wrested from them, we will have another banner for truth that remains in control as long as it can. It seems that one cannot naysay truth as the principle to pursue, yet it remains as elusive as ever.
The process through these pages and the ensuing inquiries and publicity possibly offers a larger lesson, beyond the issues raised by past students. Will anyone be listening?
EXPERIENCES AT ST. VEDAST (now St. James) AND THE S.E.S
l o w p a s s wrote:I remember one trip to the countryside a friend and I devised a game while the class was at the beach. Lets swim out to sea,and the person who turns back first was the chicken. We swam out for ages! totally lost sight of land, were subsequently swept a mile or so down the beach as we batlled back to shore, and ended up wandering around the countryside terrified in swiming trunks. Found our way back eventually, but the amazing thing, didn't occur to me at the time,aside from our friends no one noticed we were gone!lowpass
It's interesting you mention this. It reminds me very much of the orienteering exercise that Alex McMeekin and I were sent on at Waterperry, as described in the opening post of this thread. Like you, no one had noticed that two 9 year old kids had been missing for hours in flooded fields.
l o w p a s s wrote:it is so important to realise, that we were all part of an SES Mclaren experiment, this is why the analogies to other strict victorian schools are redundant. St James was unique.lowpass
This is pretty much the crux of what this campaign all is about. Indeed, I cannot recall reading many truer and more incisive statements on this entire website. Except to say that for St James, obviously read St Vedast too.
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Mic
St James
I've read through some of these posts and just wanted, briefly, to make a few points.
We can only speak as we find and make judgments, if we must, on what we have experienced.
I'm not sure reading other people's accounts of abuse and mistreatment, however true, actually helps in the process of finding "closure". Maybe it just reinforces our own anger and makes us less likely to forgive and to call a truce within ourselves.
I was at St James for 14 years. It's not my business to judge other people's accounts, but Mr Barber was, I believe, honest, kind and skilled at what he did.
For all those of you clearly still suffering, it is possible to let go. Victims of prolonged sexual abuse do it, people who have lost children do it etc. By hanging on, surely the only person who loses is yourself.
We can only speak as we find and make judgments, if we must, on what we have experienced.
I'm not sure reading other people's accounts of abuse and mistreatment, however true, actually helps in the process of finding "closure". Maybe it just reinforces our own anger and makes us less likely to forgive and to call a truce within ourselves.
I was at St James for 14 years. It's not my business to judge other people's accounts, but Mr Barber was, I believe, honest, kind and skilled at what he did.
For all those of you clearly still suffering, it is possible to let go. Victims of prolonged sexual abuse do it, people who have lost children do it etc. By hanging on, surely the only person who loses is yourself.
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Guest
Re: St James
Mic wrote:people who have lost children do it etc. By hanging on, surely the only person who loses is yourself.
Losing children is something you never get over.
regarding your point, although painfull at first seeing other peoples stories has been personally very therapeutic and enabled me to come to confront the past more easily. So I am afraid your 'maybes' are wrong. For you they might be true. But people are all different and resolve conflits in ways that others like yourself may not understand.
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B.Barber
Dear Tom Grubb
In response to your posting please e-mail me and give me your phone number and we could make arrangements to meet.
e-mail-- toynbeeroad@hotmail.com
BB.
In response to your posting please e-mail me and give me your phone number and we could make arrangements to meet.
e-mail-- toynbeeroad@hotmail.com
BB.
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Rocket
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Mic
to guest
to guest
you're right. people never do get over losing kids.
i'd be interested to know how your life has been affected by your "ordeal" at st james/vedast. how does it manifest itself in your work/leisure time/interractions with other people etc.
also, does anyone know how i get those funky pencil
icons under my name?
you're right. people never do get over losing kids.
i'd be interested to know how your life has been affected by your "ordeal" at st james/vedast. how does it manifest itself in your work/leisure time/interractions with other people etc.
also, does anyone know how i get those funky pencil
icons under my name?
Re: to guest
Mic wrote:...also, does anyone know how i get those funky pencil
icons under my name?
You have to become a member of the site, then as you make more postings you get more pencils!
Last edited by adrasteia on Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sarah McGuinness
Firstly, I would like to say that although I understand and respect the decision by many contributers to remain anonymous I would urge you to think about using your own names. We have nothing to hide, we did nothing wrong, we were children.
As a former pupil of the girl's school ( St James) I feel it's important for me to contribute to this forum. We were not subject to the same physical violence and brutality that the boys were, we were controlled through subtler means. The means may have been different but the aim of all four schools was the same - to break the spirit of the child in order to indoctrinate him or her into the SES way of thinking. Some children conformed and seemed to get through the system relatively unscathed. However there were always a few in each class who were singled out for particular attention. I was one of them. As a young child I tried desperately to conform, but it seemed to make no difference, it was as if my position had already been decided. As I grew, in order to survive I withdrew into myself and developed a tough inner core that they could not touch. I remember the constant feeling of pressure, their need to control every aspect of our lives. I look back now and realise that I was depressed and suicidal, one benefit of their theory of reincarnation was that I thought if I die now I might have better luck in my next life. As an adult I find those feelings quite shocking in a 7/8/9 year old.
Mrs Debenham was a particularly cruel figure of terror in my childhood, she seemed to delight in humiliating young girls, I remember her little smile whenever she made someone cry and I remember the effort it took to stop myself from crying, it never worked though, she would just say she obviously hadn't hit me hard enough and hit me again until I broke. I remember on one occaision she made a classmate do press-ups all through an hour long lesson until she lay on the floor crying and shaking. This was one act in a campaign of bullying against this particular girl. The fact that this girl's mother had recently died, and what she needed was extra care and support from her teachers, makes this story all the more chilling.
Another absurd feature of St.James was the emphasis on truth while at the same time insisting I lied. Whenever I was asked a question i knew I risked punishment if I answered truthfully, what was required was the truth according to SES doctrine. The long term result of this is a disconnection from my own responses, I've come a long way, but at one time I realised that I often felt numb in the moment, my responses wouldn't come until sometime later. I know other ex-St James' have experienced this too.
I could go on but I think I've said enough for now, I'd just like to add that although I was not on the receiving end, I was then and am now deeply effected by the level of violence used against pupils of the boys school. My brothers and my close friends were amongst those being beaten, punched and generally brutalised.
Sarah
As a former pupil of the girl's school ( St James) I feel it's important for me to contribute to this forum. We were not subject to the same physical violence and brutality that the boys were, we were controlled through subtler means. The means may have been different but the aim of all four schools was the same - to break the spirit of the child in order to indoctrinate him or her into the SES way of thinking. Some children conformed and seemed to get through the system relatively unscathed. However there were always a few in each class who were singled out for particular attention. I was one of them. As a young child I tried desperately to conform, but it seemed to make no difference, it was as if my position had already been decided. As I grew, in order to survive I withdrew into myself and developed a tough inner core that they could not touch. I remember the constant feeling of pressure, their need to control every aspect of our lives. I look back now and realise that I was depressed and suicidal, one benefit of their theory of reincarnation was that I thought if I die now I might have better luck in my next life. As an adult I find those feelings quite shocking in a 7/8/9 year old.
Mrs Debenham was a particularly cruel figure of terror in my childhood, she seemed to delight in humiliating young girls, I remember her little smile whenever she made someone cry and I remember the effort it took to stop myself from crying, it never worked though, she would just say she obviously hadn't hit me hard enough and hit me again until I broke. I remember on one occaision she made a classmate do press-ups all through an hour long lesson until she lay on the floor crying and shaking. This was one act in a campaign of bullying against this particular girl. The fact that this girl's mother had recently died, and what she needed was extra care and support from her teachers, makes this story all the more chilling.
Another absurd feature of St.James was the emphasis on truth while at the same time insisting I lied. Whenever I was asked a question i knew I risked punishment if I answered truthfully, what was required was the truth according to SES doctrine. The long term result of this is a disconnection from my own responses, I've come a long way, but at one time I realised that I often felt numb in the moment, my responses wouldn't come until sometime later. I know other ex-St James' have experienced this too.
I could go on but I think I've said enough for now, I'd just like to add that although I was not on the receiving end, I was then and am now deeply effected by the level of violence used against pupils of the boys school. My brothers and my close friends were amongst those being beaten, punched and generally brutalised.
Sarah
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Annonymous
Firstly, I would like to say that although I understand and respect the decision by many contributers to remain anonymous I would urge you to think about using your own names. We have nothing to hide, we did nothing wrong, we were children
Dear Sarah,
Your not a child now and you never know if a press reporter might turn up on your door step etc. or someone else. Unfortunately what often gets printed in the press is made to sell the papers and not to help you. This is a good reason to be Annonymous or St James pupil for some of us at least for now or use a nice name.
The few posts I've put on this board so far have been a recollection of specific items that happened to me plus a few observations. Seeing this board for the first time caused me some shock which lasted for a couple of days.
But to everyone out there you only have "one" life so make the best of the rest of it.
In the past years since leaving the schools I've done lots of things I wanted to do as a child but never did.
Sarah and Andrew thank you both very much for your very moving and accurate accounts of what daily life at St James/Vedast/ girls/boys schools was once like.
I had a sister whom I loved with all my heart that died aged 4. I was 6 at the time. Shortly afterwards, the SES in their infinite wisdom sent someone round to our house. He went into her bedroom and took away all of her clothes, all of her toys, all of our photographs of her, indeed every last vestige we could remember her by. About 6 months later, when seeing our SES dentist at his house in Watford (yes, even our dentists had to be SES!), my mother discovered many of her toys and clothes in one of the children's bedrooms. This was the SES's way of dealing with a bereaving family.
Absolutely right!Sarah McGuinness wrote:Firstly, I would like to say that although I understand and respect the decision by many contributers to remain anonymous I would urge you to think about using your own names. We have nothing to hide, we did nothing wrong, we were children.
This is very interesting for me to read. Like you I completely withdrew into myself as a result of the constant feeling of pressure and their perverse need to control every aspect of our (and our families) lives. I too was depressed and suicidal as a 9/10/11 year old. I lived at the top of a 4-storey house and often felt strong urges to throw myself out of the window.Sarah McGuinness wrote:As I grew, in order to survive I withdrew into myself and developed a tough inner core that they could not touch. I remember the constant feeling of pressure, their need to control every aspect of our lives. I look back now and realise that I was depressed and suicidal, one benefit of their theory of reincarnation was that I thought if I die now I might have better luck in my next life. As an adult I find those feelings quite shocking in a 7/8/9 year old.
Yes, and I am one of them. I completely relate to this. "Disconnection from my own responses", "I often felt numb in the moment, my responses wouldn't come until sometime later." I experienced all of this, and still do to this day. The more they tried to indoctrinate me with this stuff, the more I would shut off. Eventually I couldn't learn anything as my mind would keep blanking out. It was just a barrage of noise and words but nothing would register. It was my brains way of telling me that something was wrong. When an adult is confronted by pressure they have the resources to deal with that. When it is inflicted on a child that has none of these skills, in my case the pressure was simply too overwhelming, and my brain would go into 'shut-down'. Within 6 months of this I went on to develop Obsessive Compulsive Disorder which I still suffer from on and off to this day, 25 years down the line. OCD is classed as an anxiety disorder. I have a pretty clear idea what were the root-causes of this anxiety:- the deliberate instilment of fear and insecurity into a creative young child.Sarah McGuinness wrote:Another absurd feature of St.James was the emphasis on truth while at the same time insisting I lied. Whenever I was asked a question i knew I risked punishment if I answered truthfully, what was required was the truth according to SES doctrine. The long term result of this is a disconnection from my own responses, I've come a long way, but at one time I realised that I often felt numb in the moment, my responses wouldn't come until sometime later. I know other ex-St James' have experienced this too.
I had a sister whom I loved with all my heart that died aged 4. I was 6 at the time. Shortly afterwards, the SES in their infinite wisdom sent someone round to our house. He went into her bedroom and took away all of her clothes, all of her toys, all of our photographs of her, indeed every last vestige we could remember her by. About 6 months later, when seeing our SES dentist at his house in Watford (yes, even our dentists had to be SES!), my mother discovered many of her toys and clothes in one of the children's bedrooms. This was the SES's way of dealing with a bereaving family.
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Annonymous
Dear Sarah
I would agree we did nothing wrong and were children but I never felt like a child some of the time. More like a child trying to be a grown up. Throughout my adult life when ever anyone asks where I went to school and my childhood I just tend to lock up or change the subject even with my parents or just answer it in a quick way.
I do remember at school my method of dealing with problems was to take my mind somewhere else. Preferably somewhere far away and nice. This was put in my school report as something like 'constantly day dreaming' and seems to have 'supressed anger'
I remember Jon your brother quite well. Hope he's OK.
I would agree we did nothing wrong and were children but I never felt like a child some of the time. More like a child trying to be a grown up. Throughout my adult life when ever anyone asks where I went to school and my childhood I just tend to lock up or change the subject even with my parents or just answer it in a quick way.
I do remember at school my method of dealing with problems was to take my mind somewhere else. Preferably somewhere far away and nice. This was put in my school report as something like 'constantly day dreaming' and seems to have 'supressed anger'
I remember Jon your brother quite well. Hope he's OK.
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TB
One of the best life-changes I have experienced since leaving you SES types is I have been holding conversations in PLAIN ENGLISH.
So please contribute in such a way that your text does not look like a salvo from the Enigma machine and stop this woolly thinking.
If I have NOT seen further, it is by a host of intellectual midgets standing upon my shoulders. Woolly thinking became extinct with the mammoths.
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Guest
Anonymous,
How interesting 'contantly day dreaming' was the standard comment in my school reports too.
Jon is very well and will be contributing to this forum as soon as he can.
Sarah
[quote error fixed -- mike]
I do remember at school my method of dealing with problems was to take my mind somewhere else. Preferably somewhere far away and nice. This was put in my school report as something like 'constantly day dreaming' and seems to have 'supressed anger'
How interesting 'contantly day dreaming' was the standard comment in my school reports too.
Jon is very well and will be contributing to this forum as soon as he can.
Sarah
[quote error fixed -- mike]
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