EXPERIENCES AT ST. VEDAST (now St. James) AND THE S.E.S

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
Daffy
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Postby Daffy » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:34 am

ANOTHER Concerned Parent wrote:I am very concerned, reading this board, that David Lacey is in nearly daily contact with my son.

Should I be concerned?


I've not had any contact with Lacey for 20 years but I would be very concerned if my children were in his 'care'.

Click on 'Search' at the top of the screen and enter 'Lacey' (also try 'Lacy' as it has been incorrectly spelt this way). See what everyone has been saying about him.

Lacey was, as I have said previously, a true psychopath - someone with the inability to distinguish between right and wrong. His vindictive, petty and vicious behaviour towards children of all ages made him one of the most hated teachers at St James.

I certainly can't imagine him apologising for anything on this forum, and just because physical brutality is now illegal doesn't mean that his malicious character will have been tamed.

In the pantheon of evil at St James, he arguably came second only to Debenham himself.

Yes, you should be very concerned.

kissmyface
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Postby kissmyface » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:16 pm

i would be very concerned for any child who had day-to-day contact with lacey. i believe he was (and probably still is) dangerously unhinged and seemed to take a perverse pleasure in inflicting both physical and psychological pain to children. i had several run-ins with him during my 10 years at st james and i found the man truly terrifying to the point where i genuinely worried for my safety. on one occasion my mother who, at that time, was deeply intrenched in the SES demanded a meeting with debenham after i was a victim of one of lacey's particularly perverse punishments. i genuinely believe lacey carries a definite danger to children(as some of the postings on this forum prove) and am horrified that he is still allowed to teach

gadflysdreams
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Mr.Lacey and co

Postby gadflysdreams » Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:06 pm

What you need to be clear about in relation to Mr. Lacey or any other member of staff at St. James (who is also a member of SES)is that they will follow whatever principles of right and wrong etc that are laid down by the parent organization.
Of course, each will have their particular character, but that will ultimately need to conformto a generally accepted standard.
If Mr. Lacey's conduct today is not so violent - physically or mentally -that will be because that sort of "teaching" is no longer tolerated in the higher echelons of the SES.
In other words, your child is probably considerably safer physically! Would not like to comment on the other stuff.

gadflysdreams
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More to Aother concerned parent

Postby gadflysdreams » Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:54 pm

The frank and honest postings on this site will have had a hugely positive effect on cicvilising the methods used in st.James. Pity we were too young to speak up at the time. But the likes of the current heads of these schools would have been aware of goings on as well as many, many other adults. To speak out against the new born babe of SES would have been unthinkable. No doubt it needed to be left to the Master of SES to sort out - or somebody with "true" wisdom. Parents, as I recall, were considered the least qualified to assess the needs of their children.
But you'd have thought that the publicity of the 80's ("Secret Cult") would have had an effect in having child abuse banned. But no! However, the postings on this site are, in a way, more potent.

a guest

Lacey

Postby a guest » Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:11 pm

I am very concerned, reading this board, that David Lacey is in nearly daily contact with my son.
Should I be concerned?


Dear ANOTHER concerned parent,

In answer to your question I have no idea whether Lacey now poses the same threat to children that he obviously did 20 or so years ago.

What you could do is ask yourself 'what would I expect any normal school to do when faced with public allegations such as these?'. Has the current St James school responded in the manner you would expect? Would you expect the teachers in question to be temporarily suspended until such point as the allegations are proved to be false? Are you satisfied that the school has investigated the allegations, and has ensured that St james is in fact safe for children. Has it made attempts to reasure parents that this is so?

If not you could always address your questions to the school directly and see what response you get.

concerned guest

who runs St. James?

Postby concerned guest » Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:08 am

St. James Schools are run directly by The School of Economic Science.
The leader of The School of Economic Science (currently Donald Lambie)
is (and has always been) de facto The Chairman of Governors of St. James Schools.
The only thing wrong with this is that it there is no acountability. St. James
Schools pretend that they operate within a reasonable and normal framework - the reality is that they are run by a cult and that cult does not
have the conviction to tell the public where it stands in relation to the school.

ANOTHER concerned parent

Re: Lacey

Postby ANOTHER concerned parent » Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:16 pm

a guest wrote:
I am very concerned, reading this board, that David Lacey is in nearly daily contact with my son.
Should I be concerned?


Dear ANOTHER concerned parent,

In answer to your question I have no idea whether Lacey now poses the same threat to children that he obviously did 20 or so years ago.

What you could do is ask yourself 'what would I expect any normal school to do when faced with public allegations such as these?'. Has the current St James school responded in the manner you would expect? Would you expect the teachers in question to be temporarily suspended until such point as the allegations are proved to be false? Are you satisfied that the school has investigated the allegations, and has ensured that St james is in fact safe for children. Has it made attempts to reasure parents that this is so?

If not you could always address your questions to the school directly and see what response you get.


Another parent, who I spoke with about this, said that the school were essentially dismissive of her when she tried to discuss this with them.

Do any of you who attended the school in the past have any tips as to how to stay on Lacey's good side? I think we'll need to move our children to a new school eventually but in the meantime it would be good to know how they can avoid getting on Lacey's bad side.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:24 pm

Another parent, who I spoke with about this, said that the school were essentially dismissive of her when she tried to discuss this with them.


That is indeed very worrying - and does not bode well for their proposed "inquiry".

In fact the whole nature of the internal inquiry worries me - if the allegations of abuse are found to be true (and the evidence here is pretty damning) - what happens then? As it is an "internal" inquiry are there any mechanisms in place to strip those teachers of their credentials? What about the abusive teachers who are no longer teaching at St James? Are they teaching somewhere else? Will it be like what the Catholic Church did with those abusive teachers at the school just quietly shipped off to teach in some other school?

Although a number of ex-students seem content to just receive a heartfelt apology - is that enough? What about the current generation of students being taught by these "teachers" - either at St James or at other schools?

That is why I think the police/law should be involved. I don't know about the UK but here teachers must be registered and undergo police checks etc. So someone with Lacey's history (that is IF the history was recorded and not just on an internet message board), then he would NOT get a licence to teach.

At this stage I think to have ANY creedibility the school should be placing the 3 teachers on paid leave while the matter is being investigated.

guest

Postby guest » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:10 am

I agree with you 'a different guest'.

On a lighter note, someone on this forum questioned how the Debenham's sleep at night. I realise that they meant this in terms of conscience but I have a partial answer. My classmate Ben Roberts once visited the Debenham home and told us that Mr & Mrs D had separate bedrooms. So how do they sleep at night? Well, separately it would seem!

PS - On a sidenote, for all I dislike Debenham, I cannot blame him for wanting his own room. I mean, can you imagine waking up next to that every morning?

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mike_w
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Postby mike_w » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:21 am

guest wrote:I agree with you 'a different guest'.

On a lighter note, someone on this forum questioned how the Debenham's sleep at night. I realise that they meant this in terms of conscience but I have a partial answer. My classmate xxx xxxxxxx once visited the Debenham home and told us that Mr & Mrs D had separate bedrooms. So how do they sleep at night? Well, separately it would seem!

PS - On a sidenote, for all I dislike Debenham, I cannot blame him for wanting his own room. I mean, can you imagine waking up next to that every morning?
I'm not sure you should be naming your classmate on here while remaining anonymous yourself?

kissmyface
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Postby kissmyface » Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:27 pm

PS - On a sidenote, for all I dislike Debenham, I cannot blame him for wanting his own room. I mean, can you imagine waking up next to that every morning?[/quote]

i share the above sentiments regarding debenhams sleeping arrangements particularly as, according to his friendsreunited entry, his situation has deteriorated quite drastically in recent times. maybe we should organise a sponsored run round hyde park whilst continually getting punched in the face by a vertically challenged welshman called colin to highlight the plight of retired headmasters who have fallen on hard times.

Daffy
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Postby Daffy » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:04 am

a different guest wrote:At this stage I think to have ANY creedibility the school should be placing the 3 teachers on paid leave while the matter is being investigated.


Although that is what would happen in a state school or well-funded private school in similar circumstances, I think this is unrealistic at a relatively small private school like St James. The money to pay three teachers to sit at home while a potentially lengthy inquiry takes place must come from somewhere. Making current parents pay a hefty bill for 'gardening leave' would not be fair on them.

I would like to know what is happening with the inquiry David Boddy announced here on October 20th. Since then we have heard nothing. I think we are entitled to expect more information about the proposed timeframe and terms of reference.

guest

Postby guest » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:46 am

Daffy wrote:
a different guest wrote:At this stage I think to have ANY creedibility the school should be placing the 3 teachers on paid leave while the matter is being investigated.


Although that is what would happen in a state school or well-funded private school in similar circumstances, I think this is unrealistic at a relatively small private school like St James. The money to pay three teachers to sit at home while a potentially lengthy inquiry takes place must come from somewhere. Making current parents pay a hefty bill for 'gardening leave' would not be fair on them.


I think asking current parents to entrust their children on a daily basis into the 'care' of men facing such serious allegations of child abuse is even less fair.

But David Boddy is happy to do that. What sort of headmaster would do that? What sort of human being would do that? You should be ashamed, Boddy.

sparkss

forgive me if I disagree with you

Postby sparkss » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:13 pm

I have taken the liberty of reposting the message below which a former pupil posted on another thread because I felt it was so extraordinary it needed wider exposure.

THE ORIGINAL POST WAS AS FOLLOWS:

Considering the position Katharine Watson has taken on this board with regard to the abuses of the past, I was somewhat surprised to read her article in praise of Mr Debenham in the latest edition of Spectrum, the St James magazine.

This is the final paragraph:

"But all of us over this past few days had occasion to reflect that our lives have been touched, and in many cases transformed, by the presence of a very great man. And we all recognise that things will never be quite the same again. Men of his mould are very rare - increasingly so perhaps. He is at once a true Christian gentleman, a profoundly educated, humane and civilised human being, a polymath, a great teacher, and a man of deep wisdom. All of us at St James love and honour him more than words can say."

Is this really an honest description of a man who presided over a regime of violence and bullying and was personally responsible for beating so many children?
[/i]
......................................................................................

Dearest Katharine,

Yes, I have reflected often over the years on how greatly this man touched my life and the lives of many others.

He touched my life very directly. He beat me. I use the word 'beat' deliberately? as he did when, towering over me, grasping his cane in one hand and blowing steadily into the clenched fist of his other, he passed sentence? ?I am going to beat you BOY?. (He never used the term 'cane' - he preferred 'beat'). I was 8 years old. Why did he beat me? For lying, stealing, cheating or bullying? NO. Nicholas Debenham beat me many times over the years, but never for any of these officially prescribed offences.

As an 8 year old I received a beating because I spoke. I spoke to a classmate whilst washing my hands in the toilets. I spoke on a day that this "man of great wisdom" had decreed that no child should speak for the duration of the day.

This profoundly civilised man showed no humanity as he applied 'the hand of discipline' to mould his young charge. He beat us into shape; he beat out any resistance, any ounce of personality, and any expression of individuality. Yes he was a fine artisan this Christian gentleman.

As for the ?Hand of Love?? This wonky pot never saw it. Love? Love? In that place? Never. It was a cold, brutal, institution, presided over by the self-righteous - those who could do no wrong. Debenham like his serfs was blind to his hypocrisy and ignorant of his own failings. His was a regime of fear. It was also a regime of high farce ? one could only laugh (in private of course) at the shear lunacy of many of his pronouncements. His misogyny and blinkered view of the world was breathtaking, matched only by his arrogance. I have met many arrogant men since but none have even come close to him.

This polymath, this great teacher taught me one thing and one thing only: respect has to be earned; those who demand respect are rarely worthy of it.

Yes, things will never be quite the same again. Men of his mould are rare, and may they become rarer still - for the sake of other children, that they should be spared what we went through.

So Katharine, forgive me if I disagree with you, not all of us at St James love and honour him more than words can say.

Kind Regards

PS: I believe that the ?Hand of discipline and the Hand of Love? are now available on video courtesy of the Education Renaissance Trust ? perhaps I could purchase a copy?

Guest

Nicholas Debenham

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:19 pm

I still find it extraordinary that there are educated humane people that still think Nicholas Debenam should be cannonised.

Is beating a 4 year old - humane? Is asking a 4year old child which cane he would like to be beaten with christian?. Is making a child wait hours or even days for a decision on whether he is going to be beaten a loving act. The man had no compassion, no warmth. He literally beat children till they bled.

I hear that N Debenham is hurt that people on this board are challenging his life work. I can guarantee that his hurt does not come close to the pain he caused people.

Katharine - no doubt you have contact with this man .. perhaps you can let him know that every day he maintains his silence he is damaging St James and all the children who study there.

I personally will not stop until he makes amends.


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