Celia (in particular) -- there are a few other Islamic sayings that might be quoted here.
"Allah, Aqkbar" is becoming a quite popular one -- frequently used as you plunge a jet aircraft full of unbelievers into a world trade centre for example, truck bombing in Iraq, blowing yourself up in Israel or whilst slowly decapitating a prisoner you have 'captured' say a young female TV reporter or a Christian aid worker,truck driver or anyone else who serves your purpose of "honouring God"
"Convert or die" was another popular saying shortly before the wholesale slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Armenians, Indians, Jews, Christians and sundry others over the bloody history of Islam -- the comparable carnage in the name of every other diety does not diminish the culpability of the purveyors of the 'will' of the other "Gods"
Try to understand ,THERE ARE NO GODS -- you are responsible for your own wrongdoing, barbaric cruelty and slaughter -- recourse to some 'holy text' that condones or justifies reaL EVIL is merely seeking some sort of dispensation to do what you know to be wrong -- this applies to implementing the SES version equally well (Shout's point ) and 'spreading your bets' by worshipping ALL gods is no solution either - nor is it some sort of demonstration of 'tolerance' or greater wisdom.
Islam is utterly intolerant (recall the recent 'almost execution' under the 'reformed' Afghan government of a convert to Christianity ?) and Anton 'worshipping' with Muslims AND every other religion would brand him as both Kafir and "Munafiq" -- meaning essentially 'hypocrit' and one who 'outwardly believes but conceals disbelief' -- grounds for decapitation.
For independent confirmation of my facts about the meaning of Kafir and the overall facts of Arab (Muslim) slave trading etc take a look at the quite detailed entry in Wikipedia for a start,
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir#Qur27anic_reference. also
www.frontline.org.za/news/end_of_islam.htm or Kafir-definition by dict.die.net
I stand by my facts and context -- also "Free Thinker" , the SES 'teachings' are a conglomeration of bits from many different 'faiths' and not only refect the beliefs of each but in toto comprise a religious world view including the right to impose this on others, use deception where neccesary (even quoting Plato on this ) and claim divine sanction in doing the work of the 'absolute' authority -- if that involves a bit of damage to the kiddies or a righteous slaughter or two then so be it.
That is where theistic and atheistic belief systems differ (maybe John Lennon "Imagine" ...there's no heaven, no religion too.....) would be a better musical inspiration than Tears for fears.
See also "Be careful who you call a Kafir"
www.the modern religion.com/ugly/Kafir.html
(Just a bit of humor from a Rhodesian I once met -- that came about when the "Kafir" bit came up -- they have a joke about a Zebra that needs to know whether he is a black Zebra with white stripes or a white zebra with black stripes ... relies on the black American pronunciation and hard to convey in print but the other saying that seems appropriate about ' ex members ' of religious cults (in this case) they say "Man, he has totally changed, he used to be a black Zebra with white stripes now he is the exact opposite;- a white zebra with black stripes"
Unless you have really woken up to the inherent deception and falsity of every religion you have changed nothing to walk out of one into another (or into many )
The conception of higher intelligence or purpose in the universe is nothing to do with religion especially ancient prescriptive ones.
As to the roots of Arabic (Muslim) slave trading --
www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010030.php -might illuminate,
Quote, "
Jihad watch board vice president Hugh Fitzgerald discusses the strangeness of the phenomenon of black Americans converting to Islam, given Islam's record on slavery black Americans should think again about converting. Islam does not permit music .... music having to do with religious worship is absolutely forbidden . When black Americans convert they are throwing out all the gospel music (and jazz) ,doubly condemned in Muslim eyes.
When black Americans {also White Australians ,(me)} dismiss Christianity for the sake of Islam because they are fooled into believing that Islam is somehow the correct vehicle of protest they manifest ignorance of the whole horrible Arab slave trade.
That trade began earlier and ended (where it did end ) later than the European slave trade . Also it was , because it involved the castration on site of so many black African children, much greater in scope.
The mortality rate was something like 90% , so that only 1 out of 10 black male children seized and castrated by the Arabs actually made it to the slave markets of Riyadh,Cairo,Baghdad,Damascus,Algiers,Istanbul and similar centres of Islam . see "The Hideous Trade" by Jan Hogedoon."
end quote .
It seems castration not only 'quietened' unruly slaves but ensured they did not pollute your racial purity -- European exported slaves were kept "whole" for breeding purposes -- close to Africa it was easier to procure more slaves than to let them breed .
"Slavery,Terrorism and Islam " by Peter Hammond
www.christianlibrarybooks.co.za seems to have a lot of historical record about the 'fruits' of Islam and the contemporary threat posed by ignorance,false beliefs about Islam or mis directed "tolerance" to it's basic tenets (whose 'immutable' texts still permit and encourage murder and slavery in the name of Islam.
The acquisition of a nuclear weapon by Iran or another 'holy war' Jihad etc in the cause of religios zealotry might bring home the relevance and threat of support for these dangerous religious beliefs.
Apart from all out war the ongoing individual damage to the lives of forced adherents to these cults is the other cost of not standing up to organized ignorance
The description of a blighted family and personal life by Celia (and of course Shout and the other unwilling victims) is probably a fair account of daily family life under religious control in whole countries like Afghanistan and Iran that "embrace"(and enforce) state religion.
The SES system seems to amount to a 'private'and 'voluntary' version of this life control for the same sort of reasons and absurd aims.
Is that what we really want ? Was the Taliban regime or Sharia law somehow a 'perfect' society ?(or Hindus e et al ) Does not religion lead to such enslavement to dictatorial control and manifest evils like slavery,slaughter and loss of freedom to think,question or take responsibility ?
If you believe in some higher purpose to life how can so many wrongs possibly lead to any truth or betterment of mankind ?
My earlier post was put up at 3.20 am this morning and probably should be editted a bit -- likewise I had not looked at any of the websites just given when I posted about the truth of Arab slave trading or the real meaning of Kafir and the significance for current belief -- all matters disputed by Anton . I don't think that my facts were wrong as claimed by Anton and the more significant issue of religious culpability cannot either be flippantly dismissed or denied.