Ok, there has been a few references to the SES' view on music. For those of you who have not heard (or read)...basically their view is that Mozart and Vivaldi are good and virtually everything else is bad (including some other very noteable classical composers).
For my own experiences, I was continually told to stop playing boogie on their pianos (which I did at every available oportunity) because "synchopated music is not fine". Well that's bollocks for a start, as synchopated translates to "with timing" and that is one of the tenets that defines all music.
So I would love to know from anyone who subscribes to the SES view, how they can possibly justify this stance.
If there are no posts to this thread then I think we can all conclude that everyone is in total agreement that there is no justification at all, and it is just another SES mis-interpretation of something some supposedly holy bloke may or may not have said a very long time ago!
Musak
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Misty
Re: Musak
Alban wrote:Ok, there has been a few references to the SES' view on music. For those of you who have not heard (or read)...basically their view is that Mozart and Vivaldi are good and virtually everything else is bad (including some other very noteable classical composers).
I didn't know they thought 'everything else' was bad. Mustic competitions at the St James schools are quite ranged, from classical composers to opera songs, to 'light' songs -which could be alomst anything.
The fact that people are allowed to sing what they like, or infact play what they like, shows that music overall is quite favourable in an SES afflited school. I also believe that musical talent in the school is amazing, as everyone is encouraged to atleast sing, if not take up a musical instrument.
From my observations and opinion there are few schools which can produce end of year summer concerts as great as the one St James do.
"Quite ranged" Misty?....possibly within the narrow band of clasical music, but I think it would be a good bet there is no Jazz, Rock or other contemporary music.
And exactly how many end of summer concerts have you been to of other schools? lots of schools put on concerts in a very wide and balanced range of musical genres.
However, my original point still stands, that there is good music and there is bad music, but the good and the bad are not dependent on genre!
And exactly how many end of summer concerts have you been to of other schools? lots of schools put on concerts in a very wide and balanced range of musical genres.
However, my original point still stands, that there is good music and there is bad music, but the good and the bad are not dependent on genre!
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dottydolittle
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:32 pm
more than you'd be able to cover!
Now if you want to site examples of where non-classical music has been performed, then I might be persuaded that the schools are broadening their horizons a little. If as I suspect you can't, then I would suggest that you either defend the SES's position or come up with something constructive to say.
Now if you want to site examples of where non-classical music has been performed, then I might be persuaded that the schools are broadening their horizons a little. If as I suspect you can't, then I would suggest that you either defend the SES's position or come up with something constructive to say.
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dottydolittle
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:32 pm
Alban wrote:more than you'd be able to cover!
Now if you want to site examples of where non-classical music has been performed, then I might be persuaded that the schools are broadening their horizons a little. If as I suspect you can't, then I would suggest that you either defend the SES's position or come up with something constructive to say.
This music competition people perfomed Classical songs to Jazz duets, Cristina Aguillera's sigle "I am beautiful...", and finished off with four girls singing Diamonds are Forever(which isn't ecatly Moztart)!
That may not be a carefully structed sentence, nor am I defending the SES, I am saying what is.
What is the problem? THe fact that you can't accept that the school has changed? Or that anything possibly realated to the SES is bad?
If that's the case then it's good to see that at least the day schools have loosened up a little.
The only problem I have is with a ridiculous attitude to music that was so prevalent during the many years that I was there and was certainly still around for many years after. If that is changing then great...it's about time.
I don't have a problem with anyone defending the SES as long as they use reason and intelligence.
The only problem I have is with a ridiculous attitude to music that was so prevalent during the many years that I was there and was certainly still around for many years after. If that is changing then great...it's about time.
I don't have a problem with anyone defending the SES as long as they use reason and intelligence.
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the annoyed
Firstly, let me point ut that this thread (as a lot of them) have been dragged towards the day-schools, when they are under the heading of "General discussion on SES". To my knowledge (and I still know a few people active in the SES) - contemporary, non-classical music is still frowned upon and certainly not promoted in the SES.
Secondly, I would look up "irrational" if I were you 'annoyed' and ask yourself if you could have applied it to a more inappropriate comment. Irrational is dumbing down all music that is not from a small section of a genre that itself makes up less than 10% of all music sales. Irrational is blindly following a set of opinions that cut down your freedom and ability to think for yourself. Irrational is assuming that things have changed in an organisation that has consistantly shown itself to be impervious to outside influences.
As for "toffe nosed" - I just had to laugh at the irony!
Secondly, I would look up "irrational" if I were you 'annoyed' and ask yourself if you could have applied it to a more inappropriate comment. Irrational is dumbing down all music that is not from a small section of a genre that itself makes up less than 10% of all music sales. Irrational is blindly following a set of opinions that cut down your freedom and ability to think for yourself. Irrational is assuming that things have changed in an organisation that has consistantly shown itself to be impervious to outside influences.
As for "toffe nosed" - I just had to laugh at the irony!
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Guest
Alban, 10% of all music sales isn't exactly insignificant when you think about the huge variety of genre we have to choose from. People's music tastes tend to naturally change as they gain age and experience - what "made you feel good" at 16 might not be what makes you feel good at 46.
Perhaps there is a reason for this progression as well. Music fills a void in us, or resonates with aspects of our being - I think that's a safe bet for everyone. What resonates naturally changes as more experiences pass under the bridge, and our character and reason develops.
I guess it depends on your own definition of what makes quality music. If you don't agree with the SOP premise that self-indulgence is mostly unnecessary, then certain music will hold a certain appeal. Speaking for myself, the most uplifting musical experiences I've had have either been with classical music or ethereal string-based modern music. I like the 4AD label. "Uplifting" is the aim for me (god knows I've had my fill of wallowing and artificial excitement), and I know what works and what doesn't. I probably sound snooty about this, but I honestly don't mean to. I'm not interested anymore in listening to music that makes me depressed, or angry, or "spaced-out", or even bouncy and euphoric. I used to be, and it was because I thought the duty of music was to echo my emotions, or make me feel validated. This change isn't indoctrination - it's been a long time coming, but it's been inexorably coming, since before I joined the SOP.
All I can say is geez, I'm sorry you were beaten over the head with what's fine and what isn't, and not given the opportunity to explore it naturally yourself. Once again, you need to keep in mind that not every individual in the SES or SOP has such a blatantly hardline view. Perhaps you may also be interpreting an opinion or suggestion as "the party line - live it or leave." Yeah, certain music is held up as "finer" or more beneficial - but it's the same whether you're at the SES/SOP or at the Greek Club.
Perhaps there is a reason for this progression as well. Music fills a void in us, or resonates with aspects of our being - I think that's a safe bet for everyone. What resonates naturally changes as more experiences pass under the bridge, and our character and reason develops.
I guess it depends on your own definition of what makes quality music. If you don't agree with the SOP premise that self-indulgence is mostly unnecessary, then certain music will hold a certain appeal. Speaking for myself, the most uplifting musical experiences I've had have either been with classical music or ethereal string-based modern music. I like the 4AD label. "Uplifting" is the aim for me (god knows I've had my fill of wallowing and artificial excitement), and I know what works and what doesn't. I probably sound snooty about this, but I honestly don't mean to. I'm not interested anymore in listening to music that makes me depressed, or angry, or "spaced-out", or even bouncy and euphoric. I used to be, and it was because I thought the duty of music was to echo my emotions, or make me feel validated. This change isn't indoctrination - it's been a long time coming, but it's been inexorably coming, since before I joined the SOP.
All I can say is geez, I'm sorry you were beaten over the head with what's fine and what isn't, and not given the opportunity to explore it naturally yourself. Once again, you need to keep in mind that not every individual in the SES or SOP has such a blatantly hardline view. Perhaps you may also be interpreting an opinion or suggestion as "the party line - live it or leave." Yeah, certain music is held up as "finer" or more beneficial - but it's the same whether you're at the SES/SOP or at the Greek Club.
Ok, First off, I'm not rubbishing any particular type or genre of music, rather I am protesting at a regime that insisted that all forms of music other than a small section of a minority genre were "base" and were not to be listened to.
Secondly, I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush - in fact I was ranting at the edict rather than anyone who said it. And believe me, it was an edict that was enforced by a great number of people - so much so, that I and many others were denied the right to listen to or play "contemporary" music. There was certainly no mis-interpretation involved - believe me, I tested it on many occasions.
....and I'm not sure exactlty what goes on at a Greek club...does it involve lots of young men?
[/b]
Secondly, I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush - in fact I was ranting at the edict rather than anyone who said it. And believe me, it was an edict that was enforced by a great number of people - so much so, that I and many others were denied the right to listen to or play "contemporary" music. There was certainly no mis-interpretation involved - believe me, I tested it on many occasions.
....and I'm not sure exactlty what goes on at a Greek club...does it involve lots of young men?
[/b]Sounds fairly hardline, Alban. Since things seemed to have changed in the St James history curriculum since you attended, it's feasible and welcome - as you and others say - that things have changed some with regard to musical instruction as well.
Heh. No, I was talking about a Greek Club playing Greek music - I suspect naked wrestling might not make it to St James in the very near future.
Heh. No, I was talking about a Greek Club playing Greek music - I suspect naked wrestling might not make it to St James in the very near future.
And I will say it again - this thread is about the SES and the attitudes therein, not necessarily about the day schools.
Fair enough - that's not been my experience. So you're talking about the SES, then - are you saying your tutors at the SES somehow denied you and your friends the right to ever play or listen to contemporary music? That's quite a feat. Or do you mean that you were not permitted to play it in the school grounds while on residential? Or are you talking about the day school after all? I'll admit to being a bit lost.
Fair enough - that's not been my experience. So you're talking about the SES, then - are you saying your tutors at the SES somehow denied you and your friends the right to ever play or listen to contemporary music? That's quite a feat. Or do you mean that you were not permitted to play it in the school grounds while on residential? Or are you talking about the day school after all? I'll admit to being a bit lost.
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